Chamber and committees

I will just come right out and ask the question: in your view, should the current temporary measure be made permanent?

I think that you are both saying that it is important that people have a choice—an informed choice—about which option is best for them.

I have one further question, on the first area in which the bill proposes to move from temporary to permanent provisions: the electronic signing and transmission of legal documents in criminal cases. Do you regard those provisions as helpful, or are there situations in which it might be more helpful for the people with whom you work to do that using the old-fashioned paper method?

Before I move on to ask Adam Stachura about that, do you support the development of fully virtual trial courts to deal with some of the types of case that people who have come to you might have been involved in?

That is interesting—thank you.

I am sorry; that was my fault. I am asking you before I go to Adam.

Adam, on the same point, I take it that you are supportive of the measures. Do you likewise believe that they should be made permanent, as the bill proposes?

Good morning. My question is very much on the subject that Rona and Audrey have been covering, so you have already started to answer it, Kate.

I will ask about a couple of the temporary provisions. From what you have said about virtual attendance, I assume that you are supportive of the measures in the bill and that you feel that the temporary provisions should be made permanent.

I mean every part of the proceedings.

I broadly agree with Mr Bibby. As he has, I have long been advocating on this issue in the Parliament. Indeed, I have lodged two motions in this parliamentary session alone, on the publication of the “National Primary School Swimming Framework” and on the role of swimming pools, and both achieved cross-party support. That support, which you mentioned at the start, convener, is important. Moreover, back in March 2023, I held a successful garden lobby event entitled, “Everyone Can Swim—Save Our Pools”, so there is a bit of history to this issue.

Like Neil Bibby, I do not have the time to express fully my views on the petition, but I point to the many benefits of swimming—mental health, physical health, community cohesion, social and safety skills—and all the things that can be improved by swimming. Scottish Swimming has cited research that the social value of swimming in the UK is almost £2.5 billion. A small investment in protecting pools now will provide exponential returns for society in the future.

As the convener indicated in his opening remarks—I think that this got broad agreement—I strongly believe that we need to move away from the notion of swimming being just another hobby or sport. Of course, it can be argued that any sport brings benefits similar to those that I just cited, but we need to go back to considering swimming as a vital skill or, at the very least, an important life skill.

I do not know about other members, but that was definitely the case when I was growing up in Coatbridge. We used to go to the Coatbridge baths as part of our curriculum at primary school and high school, and everyone was given the opportunity to learn to swim. It was embedded in us that swimming was a life skill. Now, it is more down to whether families across the country have the finances to do it—I am fortunate enough to be able to send my children to swimming lessons—and whether it is a priority on a family’s radar.

We need to move back to swimming being more of a life skill and that is never more important than now, as we are all seeking more outdoor activities, which has perhaps been boosted by the pandemic. I cannot be the only one whose Facebook feed is filled with people going wild swimming or dooking. I have tried it myself. It is very good and it is quite right that people should be accessing our lovely seas and lochs, which are some of the cleanest in the UK, if not in Europe and the world. People should be accessing that, but it needs to be safe.

I have said previously that it could be a perfect storm if we have the smallest number of people able to swim than perhaps we have ever had, combined with more folk accessing outdoor swimming. We need to take the opportunity to see swimming as a life skill again.

I would go further than the petition, because I would fully support any attempts to introduce statutory swimming lessons. I know that there are difficulties with that in the school curriculum. I have had discussions about that with ministers over the years, but I would welcome any attempts that could be made to introduce lessons being a statutory requirement.

I appreciate that I am probably running out of time, so I will end by giving my full support to the petition. I have deliberately not touched on the pool closures in Dundee and other places, because they are not in my constituency, but any pool closures across the country are concerning. Mr Bibby touched on some of the issues around that; some are for the Scottish Government, but some are for the UK Government, such as the high energy costs. I wonder whether the UK Government could look at exemptions for swimming pools. I know that there has also been a shortage of chlorine at points, which has affected pools in North Lanarkshire. There are various factors that affect the issue, some of which are global, some of which are UK and some of which are Scottish. However, we need to find an approach in which we all work together to make sure that swimming pools are vibrant into the future, and that as many young people and adults as possible learn to swim.

When I set up the event that I referred to earlier, Scottish Swimming was really good at bringing major stakeholders together from across Scotland and would be a good source of information about who to invite to a round-table discussion.