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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 26 April 2025
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Displaying 888 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 13 September 2023

Fulton MacGregor

I was going to ask how the pilot that you are talking about might have an impact on resources across the board, so it is interesting to hear that there has been a decrease of up to 50 per cent in police witness citations.

However, do you think that that can really change the way in which we do things in courts? Will you be looking at the pilot project that the Police Scotland witnesses talked to us about earlier this morning? Will you be looking at risk and vulnerability, and the standardness—for want of a better word—of the case, and at where that can all be agreed early on in order to save that resource?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 13 September 2023

Fulton MacGregor

What are your projections? What savings in overtime do you hope to achieve?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 13 September 2023

Fulton MacGregor

Yes.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 13 September 2023

Fulton MacGregor

Okay. Thanks.

11:30  

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 13 September 2023

Fulton MacGregor

You mentioned sporting events, so you must have read my mind about my next question. At last night’s Scotland match, there was a significant increase in police numbers compared to previous games—I have been at all the games recently as part of the five game package. Even my wee boy, who was with me, noticed and said, “Oh dad, there’s loads of police tonight.” I have to say that the police were great and they were interacting well with the fans and the kids.

How are those things thought out? I do not know what the exact numbers were, but there seemed to be a large police presence: I could see a police officer everywhere I turned. I suppose that is a good thing, but given that we are here to scrutinise the budget, how do you take into account and prioritise such events? I know that you cannot predict things—you just said that—and possibly, as I am sure you will tell me, what I am about to say was to do with the fact that there was a large police presence, but the atmosphere seemed fairly friendly last night and I did not notice any difficulties.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 13 September 2023

Fulton MacGregor

Thanks very much for that answer. My final question is on an issue that we have done a bit of work on in the Parliament: water safety. I have to say the SFRS does a fantastic job with us on water safety. Accessing wild waters is becoming more popular as a result of the pandemic and climate change bringing warmer weather. How much thought and budget resource has been put into that work? It is very good work that is welcomed by everybody who is in that field.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 13 September 2023

Fulton MacGregor

Okay. Thank you.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 13 September 2023

Fulton MacGregor

It is very important that we help you to reflect that accurately. Thank you.

I have a couple of questions on the fire services—I will be quick, convener. The first question is for Ross Haggart. I did a bit of work with my local fire station at Coatdyke—it was not too long ago, but certainly pre-Covid and before budgets are what they are just now—and there was some discussion about appliances. I think that there were some thoughts that an appliance might be lost from there. When I got involved and started speaking to senior officers about it, there was a lot of discussion about the fire service looking to move to new models anyway. How much of the appliance cuts are to do with budget pressures and how much are they to do with the direction in which the fire service is moving anyway? I suppose that the reverse question of that is, if there was a magic wand and you had all the money that you needed, would you be reinstating those appliances or would you be moving in a different direction?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 13 September 2023

Fulton MacGregor

I hope that my first question will link this session with the previous one. My colleague John Swinney’s line of questioning in the previous session was about joined-up thinking in the justice sector. It will come as no surprise to the witnesses—the point has probably been raised with you previously, maybe even by me at a previous session; I cannot remember—that we often hear from the police about the amount of time and resource that is taken up by officers having to attend the court. We all know about that. We have heard it many times, and we heard it again today; there was even talk about the impact of that on overtime budgets.

Is the SCTS doing anything to try to limit that? Is it doing any further work with the police to see exactly how that can be reduced? That would have an impact on the police budget, which we have just heard about, and I presume that, to an extent, it would also have an impact on the SCTS budget.

12:15  

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 13 September 2023

Fulton MacGregor

I am last but not least—I hope.

I have a couple of questions. My first question is for James Gray and David Page. James mentioned earlier that Police Scotland is looking at the issue of overtime. I probably will not be popular for asking this question, and I apologise to any friends in the police who are watching, because I know that they welcome overtime—as anyone would just now. How could that issue play out in your budgets? It would seem more sensible to reduce overtime in order to keep staffing numbers up. Are you looking at that? Can you expand on what the impact of overtime is, and say what the figures are and how savings might be made?