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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 24 April 2025
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Displaying 1828 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Graham Simpson

You do not eliminate the risk. However, the risk would be virtually eliminated if a consultation was face to face. Do you accept that?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Graham Simpson

Good—I look forward to you re-looking at it in the Borders.

One problem that we have looked at in previous sessions is that, when you go to a GP, you have to make an appointment and explain your problem to someone who might not be medically qualified. That in itself can be a barrier. Having somewhere where you can just walk in and get help immediately would be a positive development. Good luck to you, Simon, as you look at that system again.

I will move on to data, which was a big area for criticism—I suppose that that is a fair word—in the report. A theme that comes up in a lot of reports from the Auditor General is the lack of data and the lack of quality data. The report states:

“Data is not available to determine how many people have severe and enduring mental health conditions in Scotland.

Information is not available to accurately assess demand for mental health support in primary care in Scotland, but it is likely that demand is high.”

Well, yes. The report goes on to say:

“In 2018, a survey of more than 1,000 GPs across England and Wales estimated that 41 per cent of appointments relate to mental health.”

Do you agree that data collection and, indeed, the quality of data should be improved? If you agree, are any of you tackling that?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Graham Simpson

That is really interesting. You have described a system in which police are, I presume, not having to sit in accident and emergency for hours at a time.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Graham Simpson

That is interesting. All the rest of you need to work with Richmond and do what he asks, then.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Graham Simpson

I want to go back to Tracey McKigen’s answer to the previous question. When you are dealing with young people, in particular, and you are having online consultations, how do you ensure that there is nobody else in the room prodding them to say certain things?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Graham Simpson

I will try to keep the conversation going, as always, convener.

In my questions over the past couple of weeks, I have been exploring gaps in the system as it relates to the police. I am sure that this is the same for our colleagues in Wales, but the police tell us that they spend the majority of their time—up to 80 per cent—dealing with people with mental health problems rather than with crime. They are called out to people with mental health problems; that is what they are doing for up to 80 per cent of the time.

There should be no such thing as out of hours when we are talking about mental health, but there is. The services of some of the people who are in this meeting shut down at certain times, and perhaps that is part of the problem. Whole squads of police are sat in hospital accident and emergency departments with people, waiting for them to be seen.

I have heard that, in Lanarkshire, which the convener and I represent, police officers have spent entire shifts sat in hospitals with people. The police have had to introduce what I think is an informal system with NHS Lanarkshire that means that, if they have to do that, they pick up the phone and say, “Look, can you help us out and start moving people through the system?” Does anyone have a better system for working with the police?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Graham Simpson

Is anyone aware of anything similar elsewhere in Scotland?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Graham Simpson

That is fascinating. It is obvious that we have a bit of a patchwork of systems in Scotland. Some places are apparently doing very well, while others are doing less well. The committee would love to hear more details of the schemes that have been described to us. If the witnesses could send us more information, that would be good.

Have any of the people here today had a look at the model that is referred to in the report that operates in Trieste in Italy? Essentially, it is a 24-hours-a-day, seven-days-a-week service to which people can go. There is no waiting list, so people can just turn up. One of the side benefits is that it has saved money, but it has also led to a better service for the people who need it. Have any of you had a look at that model? If so, what do you think of it? I will pick on Hannah Axon.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Graham Simpson

That is honest of you, Richmond. It sounds as though you recognise everything that the Auditor General is saying. There is data in one part of the system, and data in another part, but nobody is collecting it. It is probably your job to collect it, is it not?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Graham Simpson

That is good, because hospitals in Lothian deal with that on the ground.