Chamber and committees

Given the discussion that has taken place, is Jamie Greene’s understanding that the effect of the bill will be to push community groups down the path of using professional bodies? That is perhaps the direction of travel that we are going in. On the basis of the bill, those bodies can operate all year round. Does Jamie Greene think that that is probably where we are going?

I am worried about the onerous nature of the licensing scheme and, therefore, have concerns about restricting the period to two years, given the additional cost. I wonder whether there is another way of dealing with the matter. For example, if somebody is convicted of a fireworks offence—or, indeed, another offence—there could be an obligation on them to contact the relevant authorities. I put that into the debate for consideration.

I echo the points that have been made in all the contributions so far, including the concern about the lack of prosecutions under existing legislation and, indeed, the further concern that that may mean that there would not be effective use of this legislation if it were passed, although it would result in law-abiding citizens having to go to a great deal of extra trouble and expense to adhere to the licensing system.

I do not envisage that the amendment would delay implementation of the bill. It is about providing the whole country and, in particular, the Parliament and the committee with information that should already have been shared. We need to understand why there has been a failure to investigate and prosecute under existing legislation.

In the chamber, the minister referred to reasons why it might be difficult to prosecute under existing legislation. I got the impression that those might be technical difficulties to do with preparing cases and meeting the evidence standard. I am not clear about that and it would be useful if the minister or the Government could provide information about why there may be difficulties. With other types of case—for example, rape cases—we would have looked in detail at that issue to understand why prosecutions are taken or not taken and why the evidential base might or might not exist.

It would be useful to understand why the Crown Office has not taken prosecutions. Is it because resources or priority have not been given to such cases or are there other reasons? That is exactly what would be highlighted in a review, so I do not envisage that the amendment would delay the bill’s implementation. However, we need that information and putting a review into the bill is an effective way to ensure that it is built into the Parliament’s and the Government’s work. For that reason, I support Jamie Greene’s proposals.

Miles, are you able to talk about how big a factor organised crime is?

I was going to ask about organised crime—perhaps we will come on to that later. First, though, I would be interested to hear from those involved in this area how they think perpetrators are created. We have heard that there are a lot of parallels between perpetrators and those who have experienced violence, and there has been a lot of work on violence. We know that experiencing poverty, trauma and violence leads people to be more violent when they grow older. Are there any themes in relation to why people become perpetrators? Is it because they have been victims themselves? That might be one factor, but there might be others. We need to be able to understand those in order to frame a co-ordinated strategy.

Do any of the witnesses who have direct experience have any evidence that might be of use to the committee on that? Perhaps it would be best to start with Stuart Allardyce.

Gina Wilson, do you want to come in on that? From your perspective, is that a major issue on your radar?

That is interesting. It is a massive topic that we do not have the opportunity to explore properly now.

We have been discussing organised crime. Obviously, there are links between organised crime and some of the other issues that we are discussing. Perhaps Bex Smith would be a good person to talk a little bit about that.

I will ask about drafting and the importance of having precise wording in any legislation that we consider, which I suspect this committee will do in detail in due course.

The same debate is happening in many other jurisdictions—unfortunately, it is not just a Scotland-wide problem. Have you considered the debates that are happening in other countries, and what options did you look at with regard to how the legislation could be drafted? You specifically use the terms “prejudice” and “contempt”.

What advice would you give the committee on how we can ensure that the legislation is as robust as possible and that it covers as many scenarios as possible, which may mean a longer definition with different options? How should we be looking at these issues? Is there anything in particular that we might want to look at to make sure that the legislation is usable and makes a difference?

I am happy to come in later.

Yes. The minister has been very clear on the issue of proxy purchase, and I can see the case that she is making there.

Minister, did you or other ministers look at how the current legislation is being used? Concerns have been raised with the committee that police and prosecutors are not putting in the resources to pursue cases for things that are currently illegal. We are being asked to consider what is quite a complicated system on a truncated timeline, given that the bill is emergency legislation. However, it is not clear that the current legislation is being properly enforced.

It is really a question for politicians and, therefore, for the minister. Have you really looked at reports on the level of offending and taken a view as to whether the amount of effort that should be being put into prosecuting people under the existing legislation is currently being put in? Perhaps the minister could give us a view on that.