Chamber and committees

Thank you very much. Meghan Gallacher is joining us online.

Thank you for that. I will bring in Emma Roddick on that area.

Okay. Briefly, does anybody have anything new and different to add to that?

Do you have anything else, Fulton? I think that he might have frozen.

Okay. I bring in Alexander Stewart, who has a number of questions.

Before I bring in Fulton MacGregor, Emma Roddick mentioned land, but we have not really talked about that. The committee will visit Argyll and Bute in a few weeks’ time, and I am aware that there is a real challenge there. For example, if you have ever been to Oban, you will know that there is a really difficult situation there because the town centre is full of guest houses and there is not much available land.

Last week, I was at the Nordic Council in Iceland and talked to folks from that part of the world. Someone was talking about how the city of Helsinki actually owns land in Helsinki, so it can bring forward housing more easily. We do not have that kind of set-up in Scotland. Land is a perennial challenge to bringing forward housing. I am aware that developers buy land and bring it forward for local development plans, but is the land issue part of the challenge around the long-term issues, such as planning, that you are talking about?

Before I bring in Emma Roddick, I want to pick up on a longer-term issue. This question is not necessarily for Christian Hilber, but it relates to his point about the need to reform our planning systems. When I talked to Argyll and Bute Council about that, a point was made that planning permission might be granted to a developer, but there is nothing in the system that requires the developer to move forward. The developer has permission but does not necessarily build the houses. Do we need something in place so that, when developers have permission, they move forward and build houses?

Our next item is to take evidence for our housing inquiry from two panels of witnesses. The sessions are an opportunity for the committee to look at the response to the housing emergency and to consider how we move beyond that to a sustainable housing system that works for all.

We are joined by our first panel: Chris Birt, associate director for Scotland, Joseph Rowntree Foundation; Professor Ken Gibb, director, UK Collaborative Centre for Housing Evidence at the University of Glasgow; and Professor Christian Hilber, department of geography and environment, London School of Economics and Political Science. I welcome the witnesses and I turn to questions from members.

We have about 75 minutes for the session and we have a lot of ground to cover, so I would be grateful if witnesses kept their responses—and members kept their questions—as concise as possible. We will try to direct questions to specific witnesses where possible but, if you would like to come in, please indicate that to the clerks or me. There is no need to turn your microphones on and off, as we will do that for you.

I begin with a number of general scene-setting questions. I am interested in hearing what constitutes a housing emergency from your perspective, so that we can understand that as a baseline for our discussion. I will start with Chris Birt and work across.

That is great. I think that we will have some questions later about defining the housing emergency, so I will let colleagues come in on that.

Christian Hilber noted the percentage of the population in Scotland that is not in permanent housing, with reference to the Financial Times report, and used the word “shocking”. That is one aspect. Does Ken Gibb or Chris Birt have anything to add on how Scotland’s position compares with that of the rest of the UK?

Okay—I think we got that.

Welcome back. We are joined on our second panel this morning by Donna Bogdanovic, who is head of housing strategy and development at Scottish Borders Council; Stephen Llewellyn, who is chief housing officer at North Lanarkshire Council; Derek McGowan, who is service director for housing and homelessness at the City of Edinburgh Council; Blair Millar, who is head of housing and communities at East Ayrshire Council; and Edward Thomas, who is head of housing and property services at Moray Council.

We will try to direct our questions to specific witnesses where possible, but if you would like to come in on the back of a question to someone else, please indicate that to me or the clerks. We have until 11.30 for this session, and we have a lot of ground to cover, so I would be grateful if you could keep your responses succinct and I ask colleagues to keep their questions succinct. There is no need for you to turn on your microphones, as we will do that for you.

I have some opening general questions, and my first one is to the City of Edinburgh Council and Scottish Borders Council, so that is to Derek McGowan and Donna Bogdanovic. Although I said that we should keep it brief, my questions are quite extensive. I will see whether I can roll them together as I go along. Just so that you know that you will get brought in, folks, my second batch of questions will go to the witnesses from Moray, East Ayrshire and North Lanarkshire.

The committee has previously heard about challenges in the housing system. We would be interested to hear what specific factors have caused you to declare a housing emergency. What do you hope to achieve from making such a declaration?