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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 27 April 2025
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Displaying 5056 contributions

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Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Devolving Scotland

Meeting date: 13 June 2023

Ariane Burgess

Most people do not understand that that is as much as a straight-up councillor gets as their salary. I am interested to hear what Reform Scotland would like to see in the forthcoming legislation. There is the local democracy bill and, as I mentioned in the previous evidence session, the community wealth building bill. What are the opportunities there?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 13 June 2023

Ariane Burgess

Good morning, and welcome to the 17th meeting in 2023 of the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee. We have received apologies from Annie Wells and Marie McNair. I remind members and witnesses to ensure that their devices are on silent and that all other notifications are turned off during the meeting.

Under our first agenda item, we will decide whether to take items 4 to 7 in private. Do members agree to take those items in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Local Government in Scotland: Overview 2023

Meeting date: 13 June 2023

Ariane Burgess

Under agenda item 2, we will take evidence on the recent Accounts Commission report, “Local government in Scotland: Overview 2023”. We are joined by Andrew Burns, a member of the Accounts Commission, and Tim McKay, its interim deputy chair. We are also joined, from Audit Scotland, by Carol Calder, audit director; Antony Clark, executive director of performance audit and best value; and Lucy Jones, audit manager.

I invite Tim McKay to make a short opening statement before I open the meeting to questions from members.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Devolving Scotland

Meeting date: 13 June 2023

Ariane Burgess

I do not know what the salary is at the moment. I think that it is around £19,000 per year.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Devolving Scotland

Meeting date: 13 June 2023

Ariane Burgess

Thanks for that. That was a very interesting discussion. I now have a greater understanding of your thinking behind that.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Devolving Scotland

Meeting date: 13 June 2023

Ariane Burgess

Thanks very much, Mark. That was interesting. Thanks for that positive response, Alison.

I want to pick up on one piece. You talked about coterminous boundaries. At the end of June, we will be going to Orkney, which is a single-island authority. Have you looked at what is going on there? We heard from Councillor Heddle at one point that that council has given budgets to its community councils on the surrounding islands so that they can make decisions at a local level with some financial backing.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Devolving Scotland

Meeting date: 13 June 2023

Ariane Burgess

It is really important to point that out. It is helpful to hear that there may be a need for some powers that have already been devolved elsewhere to come to Scotland to help us with that.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Devolving Scotland

Meeting date: 13 June 2023

Ariane Burgess

Something that I always come back to is how we get more people to engage with community councils. I made a note that says, “How local is local?” We need to have that conversation, and we may talk about that in the committee. Having a universal basic income is not necessarily an ideal approach, but I wonder whether it would be a way to get more diversity at the very local level on our community councils, because people would have some foundational income to enable them to serve their community.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Local Government in Scotland: Overview 2023

Meeting date: 13 June 2023

Ariane Burgess

That is super. I do not think that we should be concerned about repeating anything in this committee; we need to repeat things until they come through. I appreciate your response. You highlight the fact that we are an outlier. In the European Union, local authorities have the ability to raise 40 to 50 per cent of their revenue. I think that the message in relation to spheres is getting through—at a Conveners Group meeting, I asked a question of the First Minister, and he used the word “spheres” in his response. As you say, that sets the tone, but how do we put the action in under the tone? When I think about spheres, I think about getting real clarity. That came through at the new deal event. There is a need for real clarity about who is responsible for what areas and who has the power and the fiscal responsibility, and we will be looking for that clarity. Page 30 of your report will definitely be scrutinised heavily.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Devolving Scotland

Meeting date: 13 June 2023

Ariane Burgess

Thanks for that; it was good to hear. You talked about boundaries before, but then you unpacked that piece about coterminous boundaries in some places. Again, it brings us back that nuanced approach that we need to look at.

I will now bring in Ivan McKee.