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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 26 April 2025
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Displaying 1499 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Michelle Thomson

Thank you for that clarification.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Michelle Thomson

First, I have to put on the record that I made an error in last week’s evidence session. I stated that there had been a 42 per cent uplift in the financial projection figures. I want to correct the record and note that it was marginally more than a 50 per cent uplift.

I thank the minister for her statement. I note her explainer of the new numbers but, fundamentally, does she consider it acceptable that it is this committee rather than the Finance and Public Administration Committee that now has to scrutinise those numbers?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Michelle Thomson

I have a tiny supplementary question on that point. It triggered something in me when you said that the rights would be the same for people going through this process—in other words, children, and we are focusing on victims at the moment—as they would be for people going through the criminal process. Have you tested that legally, and have you taken legal advice on that? I can sense a test case emerging whereby, theoretically, they have the same rights. Have you cross-matched the rights of people going through the criminal justice process with the rights of—specifically—victims going through this process?

11:30  

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Michelle Thomson

If you have not, I would ask you to look at that from a victim-centred perspective, comparing and contrasting, if you are going to say that the rights will absolutely be upheld and be exactly the same as they are in the criminal process. I do not know the answer either, but I am asking that question and there may be a slightly different angle. I will leave it there.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Michelle Thomson

Yes—for salaried chairs and paid volunteers. What estimates are in your updated letter to cover those costs?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Michelle Thomson

I have a quick follow-up question. The minister mentioned the potential for having a single point of contact, and I note the comment that she just made. Has she been able to consider the financial costing of developing and delivering the processes that she is suggesting—because they would bring a cost—or will we see additional financial figures coming through in due course?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Michelle Thomson

If I understand correctly, those costings are still to be added; we do not have them yet. Do we have any sense of what further uplift that will create in the costings, or will we not know that until you have done the work on it?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Michelle Thomson

Yes. I am referring to the salaried chairs and paid volunteers that are triggered by the recommendations. Do we not have a cost for those?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Michelle Thomson

Would those changes be implemented under the finances of the Promise bill rather than through anything that is associated with the bill that we are discussing?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Michelle Thomson

Okay. I have one further comment. I noted what the minister said about her engagement thus far and during the summer recess, but I feel that it was significant that, after the committee’s evidence session last week, Victim Support Scotland tweeted to say:

“Rather than having a transformational impact on children’s experiences of the criminal justice system, the Bill as it currently stands could potentially fail both children who harm and children who have been harmed.”

I draw your attention to that tweet because it suggests that there is further work to be done to put Victim Support Scotland at ease.