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I will pick up on two areas that John Mason already referred to, although I am not entirely sure whether that is a good thing, convener.

The first is the role of women, which is a personal interest of mine. I was reading the “Climate Emergency Skills Action Plan 2020-2025: Key Issues And Priority Actions”—or CESAP. As is the case with many other worthy documents, I find in it mention of women, green jobs, the pay gap, representation and so on. However, in common with the practice of most agencies, women are added to the main strategic document, rather than being worthy of a specific strategy document. That is of particular interest to me, as we start to look at the transition around skills that we can be involved in from the beginning.

Therefore, will you have a specific bespoke strategy for women in your emerging strategy, and do you plan to have one as your climate emergency skills action plan evolves? Before you answer, I will say that, in my opinion, without someone being accountable and responsible, that will continue to be only a bolt-on to the main thrust of the plan.

Before Andrea comes in, it is probably worth your while to note that I asked the same question of the enterprise agencies. They do not have a separate document either, so you will have similar views on that. Only if you have a separate document will you have specific measures of success, or lack of success, and an absolute focus on outcomes.

I would appreciate your thoughts on how, from the start—particularly in relation to the term “just transition”—we are going to address those different areas. I suspect that we might want to pick up on the matter again, given Andrea’s comments about economic contribution. I will bring her in on that, because it is a broad area.

Thank you. I look forward to hearing more about that as part of the reflection process.

I have a slightly different question, which picks up on some of the threads that the convener pursued. I cannot imagine that many members of the public are watching these proceedings, but I am sure that members of various bodies will be doing so. I do not think that the challenges and complexities that exist in aligning budgetary spend with outcomes are generally understood. It is a highly complex and difficult process.

Could you give us a flavour of those areas in which you think that that is difficult to do in practical terms? An example that is often cited is our use—globally, I mean—of the crude measurement, thus far, of GDP, as opposed to wellbeing indices. In reflecting on that at some point in the future, might the Scottish Government look to adopt more forcefully some of the newer, softer measures around wellbeing that have emerged recently, rather than looking only at hard measures such as GDP? I realise that that is a complex question, but I would like to hear your reflections on it.

Bryan McGrath, what is your approach on women in place and women in their place in terms of their making a full contribution?

Without my leading you, it sounds like you are almost promising me that you will reflect on that as you develop your women’s strategy.

That probably leads on to my next question. When Carolyn Currie from Women’s Enterprise Scotland was before us, she made an interesting comment about what constitutes a microbusiness based on our traditional measures. She mentioned that she is aware of a number of women-led businesses that are, in essence, microbusinesses but that have significant turnover. It is very often the case that agencies will not pick up such businesses because there is a threshold for support in relation to employee numbers. Of course, where their turnover is significant, they are typically using e-commerce as a mechanism to trade, which is something else that we want to encourage.

Are you aware of that? Have you reflected how—almost back to front—e-commerce can skew the number of employees against turnover? That breaks the usual measures that we might choose to adopt? Have you considered that in terms of women-led businesses specifically?

That is a very honest answer.

I am mindful of what Bryan McGrath has been emphasising. I want to ask a couple of questions about women in enterprise in the concept of place, as well as in their place—that is, as thriving, active entrepreneurs in which an equitable number of women and men in businesses contribute. Do you have a strategy for women in enterprise in your organisation? Do you routinely disaggregate data by women? How do you measure that? Do you publish that strategy and data? I am after a bit of flavour on that. If you do not have a strategy, just tell me. Derek Shaw is smiling—you can go first.

Do you have a specific strategy for women, or is consideration and cognisance of women part of your overarching strategy?

In that case, are you saying that it can be argued that proxy measures are, if they are applied consistently across the board, better than nothing at all? I do not want to put words in your mouth, but that is what I took from what you were saying.