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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 April 2025
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Displaying 1198 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security Scotland

Meeting date: 22 December 2022

Jeremy Balfour

Good morning. It is good to see you again.

I am a wee bit confused, given that the system has been designed from scratch. I appreciate that it was designed by the Scottish Government, which you now work with, but it seems to me, as an amateur information technology person, that we would want to start by getting the same data that the DWP collects so that we can compare apples with apples.

You are saying to us that we are not going to be able to compare what would have happened if people had stayed on PIP with what will happen with ADP because you are not recording it in the same way. From a scrutiny panel perspective, how do we know that the information will help to answer our questions? We will not be comparing the same things. I do not see why we did not design the system from the start so that we could compare the same things.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Jeremy Balfour

I will now, yes.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Jeremy Balfour

Good morning, minister and officials. I will follow up the question from my colleague Pam Duncan-Glancy. How many meetings did you have with the Met Office, and how many meetings did you have with the DWP to discuss other methods?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Jeremy Balfour

Can I just clarify, through you, minister, whether those meetings were with the Met Office and the DWP or just with the Met Office?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Jeremy Balfour

I am grateful for that, minister. In the memorandum that was set out at the start of the policy, the Scottish Government committed to leaving nobody behind or worse off. The figures that we have from SPICe and the figures that you have been using show that there will be people who are worse off because of the introduction of the new benefit. Why has that happened? Would you like to apologise to those individuals?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Jeremy Balfour

I will move on, as I am conscious of time, to two questions about the next area that we are considering.

You might not have this information to hand, minister, so I am happy if you want to write to us with it. You helpfully said that other benefits were available, and you mentioned several of them, but do you know the number of people for whom this will be the only winter payment that they receive? There might be older people who are not entitled to, say, any of the benefits related to children. Do you have a breakdown of people for whom this will be the only winter heating payment that they will receive?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Jeremy Balfour

There are four abstentions.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Jeremy Balfour

With respect, minister, that is not what you said this morning. You said that you hope that we will get the payment out in February, but you were not willing to guarantee that we will get it in February. That seems to be a failing of the system.

I appreciate that a lot of the work was done before the minister came into post, but I would have thought that, with an issue of this importance and with the need to get information from the DWP, at some point over the past few months—not just this week, but in July, August or September—the minister would have picked up the telephone to his counterpart in London and said, “Actually, can you make this more of a priority? I appreciate that we’ve got”—

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Jeremy Balfour

Do you recognise that this is a new system devised by the Scottish Government? We have had a number of years to devise a scheme. Do you believe that this is the best scheme that could have been devised by the Scottish Government to cover everybody in Scotland and not just your constituents in Glasgow?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Jeremy Balfour

On a point of order, and for the record, I would like you to know that I will seek to bring the regulations to the chamber when we come back after the recess, so that the whole Parliament can consider whether the regulations are appropriate.