Seòmar agus comataidhean

Consultation and how we engage with those who do not often get the opportunity to engage in that process.

Good morning, minister, and good morning to your team. It is nice to see you again.

We do not often get consensus among our witnesses, but I highlight one question that I asked the witnesses both last week and this week regarding the legal status of the charter. In response to a previous question, you said that accountability is really important, and that it is important that the Scottish Government, as well as you as a minister, can be held accountable. Would it not give greater weight to that accountability if the charter had legal status? What is the thinking behind not giving it legal status at this time?

Good morning, panel. I have two questions on this area. I want to pick up on Chris Gehrke’s comment that, if the national care service is to be properly co-designed it will take time, energy and input. We have come out of the pandemic and are currently facing a difficult time for many reasons. Do you and your members have the energy and time to engage constructively with the co-design process, or are you just running to stand still at the moment, to the extent that this could be the straw that breaks the camel’s back?

I will push you a wee bit on that, minister. If those rights were legally enshrined, there would be at least the opportunity to seek a judicial review if someone felt that there had been a major breach. My understanding is that, without that legal basis, that option would not be available to an individual.

Good morning, panel. Thank you all for coming along when it is still dark outside. I will ask an opening question; whoever wants to go first should feel free to jump in. The bill is very much a framework bill and a lot of the detail will come when regulations and guidance are made. With such limited information in the bill, are you satisfied that the principles can work or would you prefer to see more of how the service should work in practice set out in the bill, rather than wait for regulations and guidance?

Thank you, Dr Nolan. You talked about looking for a human rights-based approach and you unpacked that a wee bit. Can you unpack it a bit more? What other human rights could be in the bill? Also—this question is for anyone on the panel—is there concern that this approach will lose local good practice by making everything national, or can we keep the local and the national in balance in future?

Most of my questions have probably been answered. However—and we might be slightly going round in circles on this one—if we continue down this road and do not pause, as you have suggested, what do you think should be in the bill now that cannot wait for the secondary legislation? Again, that is quite a big question, but, if we assume that this is going to go on over the next few months, what would you like to see in the bill that you do not think can wait for regulations and guidance? Perhaps I can start with in-the-room Sarah, if that makes any sense.

Thank you. Finally, I want to go back to Sarah Latto’s comments about the 200,000 unpaid workers. As someone who benefits from unpaid care, I have to ask: how do we ensure that we do not lose the voice of those workers in all of this? I realise that unpaid carers in different parts of Scotland will face different challenges and different issues. You do great work, but how do you ensure that that voice gets fed into the process? After all, we are talking about some of the key people who keep the system going and without whose help we would be in an even more difficult place.

Thank you. Does anyone else want to give their views on that and on local delivery?

Anyone else? You can say that you do not know if that is the case.