Skip to main content
Loading…

Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

Criathragan Hide all filters

Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 8 December 2025
Select which types of business to include


Select level of detail in results

Displaying 977 contributions

|

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Legal Mechanism for any Independence Referendum

Meeting date: 27 November 2025

Jamie Halcro Johnston

I want to follow up some of those questions. I thought that it was unfair of Neil Bibby to ask the panel about the SNP’s secret plan. We have here Keith Brown, the deputy leader of the SNP. I am sure that he knows it—he can tell us at some point.

Nicola McEwen, I will come to you first, and others can come in if they want to. Neil Bibby talked about the failure to deliver. It is now 11 years since the referendum and this inquiry has been brought forward only in the last few months of this parliamentary session. We have talked about the politics of independence referendums. Do you think that, over the past few years, the SNP has been more interested in talking about independence than in delivering it and that that has been an increasing concern for some in the nationalist movement?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Legal Mechanism for any Independence Referendum

Meeting date: 27 November 2025

Jamie Halcro Johnston

I think that we have established that the legal right to call an independence referendum is with the UK Government. This is all about politics, political debate and political will. If you have an essentially self-appointed—although understandably so—main party looking to deliver independence but not being fully committed to delivering what it has been talking about, that obviously impacts on the political debate.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Legal Mechanism for any Independence Referendum

Meeting date: 27 November 2025

Jamie Halcro Johnston

I have one other brief question. We started off this conversation by talking about the settled will, we then talked about the need for broad agreement, and we then went on to talk about the idea of a stable majority. We have covered a whole load of different ideas of what would perhaps constitute public support for independence or for another referendum. One of the difficulties is that, although independence can be polled on—and there are arguments at the moment about whether it is fairly close between yes and no, or between leave and remain, depending on how you frame the question—it is not a priority for the Scottish people. In polls about the top issues, we see that it is well down the list, at number 7, 8 or 9.

In identifying support for independence, is it important to consider not only how somebody would vote in a referendum, should there be one, but also where it is in the people’s priorities? I ask for responses from Professor Renwick, first, then Professor Blick and then the panel members in the room.

10:00  

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Legal Mechanism for any Independence Referendum

Meeting date: 27 November 2025

Jamie Halcro Johnston

Okay. I have some other brief questions for Dr Casanas Adam. You talked about Scotland having the right or the need to trigger a referendum—I am trying to remember exactly the words; I wrote them down somewhere, but I am not sure that I can find them in my scribbled notes. I think you said that it was right that there is an opportunity to trigger a referendum.

I come from Orkney. I do not know how much you know about the constitutional position of Orkney, but we were not always part of Scotland. We were part of Norway and we were—depending on how you present it—either annexed or given away by Norway. We were also the most strongly unionist part of Scotland. We have heard talk about Orkney having a different position—something more akin to an overseas territory—and Shetland is looking at more autonomy, too. Do you think that those parts of Scotland that value being part of the UK more than others or might seek another constitutional future and which have a distinct heritage should have a right to self-determination?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Legal Mechanism for any Independence Referendum

Meeting date: 27 November 2025

Jamie Halcro Johnston

You have talked about the secret plan. I am sure that Keith Brown knows what it is.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Legal Mechanism for any Independence Referendum

Meeting date: 27 November 2025

Jamie Halcro Johnston

From a purely moral perspective, is the right of, say, Orkney and Shetland, to self-determination any weaker or stronger than that of Scotland? Scotland is a very diverse country; the regions have very different backgrounds—Gaelic, Viking or Norse, et cetera. Do you think that the moral argument is any stronger or weaker for Orkney and Shetland?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Legal Mechanism for any Independence Referendum

Meeting date: 27 November 2025

Jamie Halcro Johnston

The late Jo Grimond did quite a lot of work on this previously. Given that the UK Government has recognised that there is a difference with Orkney and Shetland because of their backgrounds, do you not think that a decision on their self-determination should be made at the same time? For example, if there were to be another independence referendum, should that option be there for them?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Legal Mechanism for any Independence Referendum

Meeting date: 27 November 2025

Jamie Halcro Johnston

That causes the same problems that we have talked about. I am trying to remember who it was who talked about a confirmatory referendum. You would want to know as far as possible what leaving the UK would mean for Scotland. It could mean a whole load of political and financial issues. It could mean parts of Scotland leaving in the future. I understand that you will never have that certainty, but would it not be more suitable to have such a referendum at the same time so that people could vote and say, “We think Scotland may be smaller than it is now”?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Legal Mechanism for any Independence Referendum

Meeting date: 27 November 2025

Jamie Halcro Johnston

Do you want to come back in, Dr Casanas Adam?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Legal Mechanism for any Independence Referendum

Meeting date: 27 November 2025

Jamie Halcro Johnston

I admire your hope that it could happen in a calm manner. Thank you very much.