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Who would have thought that, out of everything in that report, people would jump on the reference to buying chicken from Thailand?

I note that the French always manage to do what we are discussing really well.

My last question relates to our schools and hospitals, where there is a distinct lack of ability to prepare food on site. How much does that impact on what you deliver, in terms of orders for pre-prepared food as opposed to food that could be prepared on site? Perhaps Julie Welsh can answer that.

Good morning. I will take the themes that my colleague began and run with them. There is tension between outcomes and cost. You will know that I have a specific interest in public procurement of food and the impact that it can have across much of our society. We want to have the highest-quality food in our schools and hospitals that we can—for example, food that was grown just down the road. That would improve our kids’ outcomes at school and tackle many of our poor health issues, including hunger, malnutrition and the relationship between health and attainment. It would help with recovery in our hospitals, the rural economy would benefit and we would reduce our carbon output. However, budgets come along and have an impact on that aim.

Julie, I have been looking at Scotland Excel’s work for quite a while—not from a critical perspective, but to inform my thinking about how we could improve outcomes. In 2016, I looked at the area in a lot of depth and was surprised at how little of the food that our public sector procures actually comes from Scotland. Given where we want to be, and the outcomes that we want to have, how far should we look at the issue in the long term? How much of the pressure that is put on you comes from local councils’ budgets and their ability to pay for the service?

From the other perspective, our food producers are perhaps not the best at dealing with the contracts that are required. Every single time I go to farms and meet representatives of NFU Scotland, they talk about struggling to get access to Excel contracts because, in the scheme of things, they are small operators. How do we use the public procurement framework to make it easier for them to come into the fold?

Graeme, I will come to you in a minute on that question, so please be prepared.

Can I ask a final, very small question, convener?

I was just going through the regulations. One thing that you could do around environmental impact—I am sure that you do this—is to procure based on air miles. I totally understand that there are not many tuna off the west coast of Scotland yet and that we may want to have tuna on the menu, but that is brilliant.

We can hold up East Ayrshire Council as an example, because around 75 per cent of the food that it procures for schools is local, as in from Scotland. I think that the furthest afield that it gets produce from is Edinburgh, for the fish. It can tell us which farms the eggs come from. I love that kind of stuff. There are instances out there in which that is happening, so it can be done. However, I know that the council is under financial pressure in relation to maintaining that, which, as we discussed earlier, could lead to a huge negative impact on the outcomes.

How can the Government, through contracts such as those of Scotland Excel, weight procurement more towards those outcomes? That is presumably what we want.

Good morning. I am glad that Craig Fergusson raised the subject of public food procurement, as it happens to be one of my big interests. I go back to the idea of balancing higher up-front costs with long-term objectives. If there was ever an area where that aspect was very much in evidence, it would be locally procured food.

We talked earlier about the transition to net zero. Travel miles for food is a big issue, as is fair trade and ethical produce. We charge our farmers and food producers with maintaining the highest standards, yet the last time that I looked through the Scotland Excel contract, I saw that the amount of food that is procured from within Scotland was substantially less than we might imagine.

Practically, how easy is it to procure food locally? I am sure that we all want to have the highest standards of food in our schools and hospitals, but what are the practicalities of delivering that, either through one Excel contract or through many contracts locally? When I last looked at food procurement, I saw that there was huge variation between one council and the next in terms of the amount of food that is procured locally.

How difficult is it—you alluded to this, Craig—to deliver practically on what should be a high priority?

For clarity, am I correct that you procure centrally for the NHS, but that local boards have the capability to procure their own food?

That would be helpful. Obviously, we want the highest-quality food for our patients, and we want it to be provided locally. If there is a way that we, as parliamentarians, can change how things are done, I would appreciate knowing that.

I will leave it there, convener; I know that we are against the clock.

I will leave it there and come back in later if there is more time.