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Thank you.

Ailsa Wyllie, Scotland is really good on the international stage in many sports, and we are very good at developing high-level performance. We have always been like that, but participation and physical literacy is declining at the grass roots. We have talked about investment and a commitment to doubling the sports budget, which has been on the decline since I have been an MSP. Guess what? There are outcomes from that. How do we develop policy to improve rates of participation among children and young people? It is not about developing kids for sport—developing kids through sport is probably the better expression. What polices do we need to put in place to tackle those issues?

When we read the household data, it basically tells us the number of people who are active; it does not break the data down into SIMD areas. My concern is that we are moving participation further and further up the SIMD groups—I have seen that during the decades that I have been involved in this area. Sport is almost becoming a middle-class activity, and the opportunity to participate in it is reducing across the whole country. However, the data does not tell us that. Is that something that you recognise?

Good morning. I thank the witnesses for coming. I will start by looking at the trends over time of participation in sport and physical activity. It is fair to say that the evidence shows that, on the face of it, nothing has moved, but I would make a strong argument that participation in sport and physical activity has declined, especially in relation to physical literacy. How would you reflect on what has happened over the past 20 or 30 years?

But have you written to FIFA about that?

Yes, but the evidence that gets to me is that one of the reasons why we are so poor is that about 2,500 coaches are still waiting to get accredited. That is a problem.

I might have a go myself. However, the SFA and the SPFL have said in evidence that they have to adhere to FIFA rules.

Good morning. I should declare that I was part of the Public Petitions Committee in the previous session of Parliament, and I did not get on particularly well with the SFA and the SPFL. I should also declare that I have a couple of grandsons who are in an academy, one of whom has moved from a smaller club to a bigger club.

I have to say, Mr Waksman, that I do not recognise the picture that you are painting. I think that the situation is a lot better than it was previously, and it is certainly not as bad as you say.

One of the issues that I have is that you talked about how, if a player moved from Hibs to Celtic, Celtic could not then take on another in the next year or the same year. That is restriction of trade. Why on earth would you not allow a player to move if they wanted to move?

I listened intently to your point, Mr Madlani. On whether I know what my grandkids have signed, yes, I understand completely what they have signed. I appreciate that I might be in a different situation from most people, given that I was a national youth coach in the past, but I very much know what they have signed.

I find myself quite frustrated, gentlemen—I am going to be honest with you—because the SFA and the SPFL have questions to answer. I am hearing a lot of conflated evidence, and I am actually quite angry about it, because I do not think you have put your case across well at all. You brought the example of Norway into the discussion. I am well aware of what happens in Norway; I mention Norway quite a lot in the context of youth involvement in sport. You say that Norway is very successful at international level, but we need to understand why and where it is successful. We are not Norway—we are Scotland.

The other thing that gets to me is the fact that the situation in Scotland has been compared to the one in England. The two situations cannot be compared, because, from a financial point of view, England is miles ahead of us in its ability to throw cash at the problem. Scotland cannot have the same solution as England has. It is also a FIFA problem. That has not been mentioned once in this discussion.

Despite the talk about incorporating the UNCRC, that has not been done in 14 years, so there are questions for the SFA and the SPFL to answer.

On the idea that our youth football system is not working, I do not see that. What I see is that the system is very competitive at younger ages but that it falls away among the older age groups. That is why I want to talk about how we transition from youth football to adult football. There are 2,700 players in our academies, and 0.7 per cent of them end up in any kind of employment in football. That return is simply not good enough. What are your views on the new co-operation system for youth players in the transition phase? How are we transitioning our youth players from youth level to senior level?

Not in Scottish youth football.