Seòmar agus comataidhean

I will pick up on Roz Foyer’s point about collective bargaining. A Scottish Government document from February 2021 states:

“The Scottish Government has made a clear commitment to promote collective bargaining through the inclusion of an employee voice indicator, measured by collective bargaining coverage, within the National Performance Framework, and will work in partnership with the STUC to achieve increased coverage.”

Therefore, the intention to do that work already exists; it is part of what is being progressed.

If that work is already taking place elsewhere in the Government’s processes, do you think that language around that needs to be in the bill, rather than using secondary legislation down the line to embed that in the co-designed approach? It looks like the Scottish Government is already taking forward that work.

Much employment law is still reserved to Westminster, so certain aspects of that cannot be achieved in Scotland. We have to look at what is doable in legislation in Scotland.

There are real challenges right now. We know that there are issues with recruitment and retention. One of the issues that I have raised is the need for a national approach to standards of training and education. Would that help to support the message that social care is a worthwhile career and a great way to look after people? We know that, predominantly, it is women who are carers and that they often care for other people at the same time. Will what is set out in the bill on training and a standardised approach move us forward in supporting recruitment and retention?

My understanding of the financial issue is that the projected costs for the bill are estimates that are already being used for health and social care. This is not £1.5 billion that is coming from somewhere else; it is for care delivery that is already happening on the ground. That might be worth picking up.

My questions are about training and research. We have covered many of the issues around the necessity for training to be standardised, which could be part of a national approach to supporting staff. This is about what people who are in receipt of care want—the folk who are being cared for and the carers who provide the care want a national care service. They can see what could be fixed and they know what works. We know that self-directed support works really well in some places but doesnae in others. The creation of the national care service is about helping to support people on the ground, because that is what people want. I am interested in that and in the training that will deliver what folk are asking for.

I know that there will be additional money, but I am considering the complexities of the financing of care and care delivery through 1,200 providers and the people who provide care at home and in residential homes. The whole situation is really complicated, so the bill is looking to iron out the approach to that.

Sure. I will be quick. I am thinking about the bill and the fact that we have recruitment and retention issues across health and social care. We need to get people into the workforce and value them. Dumfries and Galloway College, for example, runs care courses that really consider career development.

I was a clinical educator—I was a nurse who taught nurses how to provide care at home, including central venous access and things like that. I am interested in the extent to which you think the bill will help to address recruitment and retention, especially if a standardised approach to career development is part of the proposals in the bill.

Kay McVeigh is looking directly at me, so perhaps she can start.

Colin, I am sure that you would welcome the fact that the bill says that

“The Scottish Ministers and care boards may ... provide training”,

because that has not been the case previously, and we know the importance of teaching people about moving and handling and infection control and prevention measures, especially given what we have seen during the pandemic. I take it on board that you think that the bill might need to go further, but do you welcome the fact that training is in the bill in the first place?

It is interesting to listen to everyone. It is my understanding that this is a framework bill to create a more integrated service. It includes fair work, human rights and improvements in the quality and equity of services. I have the recommendations of the Feeley report in front of me. The report lays out the case for the creation of a national care service. Recommendation 20 is:

“The National Care Service’s driving focus should be improvements in the consistency, quality and equity of care and support experienced by service users, their families and carers, and improvements in the conditions of employment, training and development of the workforce.”

There is a lot even in that single recommendation. It is my understanding that this is about people with lived experience and about people who need care in order to prevent hospital admission. It is not just about dealing with delayed discharge; it is not a delayed-discharge bill. I am trying to get my head around how we support co-production, co-creation and innovation.

The framework bill is supposed to set out what further statutory instruments will come afterwards. Those will come from people—whether they are service users, service providers, NHS leads or others—working together. I would be interested to hear comments about Derek Feeley’s recommendation number 20 on the case for the national care service. Nick Morris has his hand up.

I have a quick question about the national care service charter that is part of the bill. Sections 11 and 12 mention the creation of a national care service charter that is “publicly available” and they state that the charter should be monitored and reviewed after five years.

I am interested in your thoughts about inclusion of the charter, specifically as it relates to the human rights-based approach and to supporting people—especially people who receive care. This is about embedding support for people with lived experience, as I understand it. Can you please tell us your thoughts on that?

I have questions about the workforce and fair work. Section 1 of the bill says that

“the National Care Service is to be an exemplar in its approach to fair work for the people who work for it and on its behalf, ensuring that they are recognised and valued for the critically important work that they do.”

In the previous evidence session, Nick Morris said that a national care service should allow for greater awareness of the work that social care staff and social workers do.

Can you comment on the fair work principles in the bill and say whether anything still needs to be added? Are there any gaps?