Chamber and committees

Page 3 of the policy memorandum says that the creation of a national social work agency is part of the plan, but that is not in the bill. It seems pretty significant to create a national social work agency—if that is what is proposed—so does that need to be in the bill?

I have just a quick thought. Yesterday in Dumfries, one of the people round the table said that we should move away from talking about person-centred care and talk about relationship-centred care, which is based on trust between, for example, a person and their carer at home or in a care home. What are your thoughts on the language that we use? Of course, we want a person-centred approach, because the situation is very dependent on what data is shared and who is allowed access to data, such as the combination for a key safe, as Ken Meechan was talking about. Can I have brief thoughts on person-centred versus relationship-centred care?

The primary legislation will state what we want to achieve and, from there, we will work back towards what the secondary legislation will need to include. Part of that is about co-design with people who matter and those who know how a co-design process can be taken forward. The co-design part relates to Ken Macdonald’s comments and the working back part relates to Beth Lawton’s comments.

This might be a question for Lynsey Cleland, too, but I want to look at the issues of quality and education that have been mentioned and which have been raised in previous evidence-taking sessions. Yesterday in Dumfries, we heard that some of our carers are doing percutaneous endoscopic gastrostomy—or PEG—tube feeding. These really complex skills must be valued and, as a former nurse educator, I think that it is important that we measure and monitor such things and ensure that people are able to deliver these complex forms of care.

We also heard yesterday that older skilled and experienced care workers might retire early instead of undertaking mandatory training. Have you heard about that issue? Have you experienced it at all? Is there some plan to ensure that older experienced people who might not want to achieve the required levels can continue to work in whatever capacity, given that they already demonstrate a lot of those skills?

One of the main drivers for introducing Anne’s law was the recognition that families and friends were absolutely essential in supporting the health and wellbeing of care home residents during the Covid pandemic. Suzanne McGuinness might want to answer this question because of the health and wellbeing aspects of the introduction of Anne’s law, which is about enabling visits to residents in care homes and visits by care home residents—as well as enabling people to go into care homes, it gives residents the ability to go out. Do you think that the aspects in the bill about visits to care homes or outside visits by care home residents are adequate to meet the needs of residents and support their wellbeing?

Good morning. The primary legislation says:

“The Scottish Ministers may by regulations provide for a scheme that allows information to be shared in order that services can be provided”.

Working back from that, we need to ensure that all data will be secure. Ken Macdonald talked about co-design and about the ICO being part of the process of developing legislation. My understanding is that the co-design process will come from the primary legislation when we start thinking about how we will manage and secure people’s data.

My question is about data security and the public’s need to be aware and trust absolutely that their data will be managed in a way that does not reveal personal information, especially if we are using it to monitor and collect information on how the national care service is working and how records are exchanged so that people do not have to repeat their stories over and over.

What needs to happen for the public to trust, in relation to the retention of their information, that only the specifics that are required will be shared? I put that first to Paula Fraser, who is in the room, and then to Scott Heald.

The bill says:

“the National Care Service is to be an exemplar in its approach to fair work for the people who work for it and on its behalf, ensuring that they are recognised and valued for the critically important work that they do.”

That is what we can build on—again, this is a framework bill. Do you agree that it is a good idea to have that statement about fair work in the bill? I direct that question to Roz Foyer, because she is nodding.

I want to pick up on Paul O’Kane’s point. He said that there is ambivalence about the bill. What I see is flat-out negativity against it. Do you think that part of the issue is that people are used to seeing detail in legislation, but the bill is a framework bill, so what comes after will be bite-sized pieces of legislation that will be able to be scrutinised and interpreted, then agreed on or amended and then delivered? I am really interested in hearing what Alison Bavidge and perhaps Maree Allison, too, have to say about that.

The people on the ground are asking for the bill. I have just read something about an action group from Falkirk that basically said:

“The National Care Service will have equality, dignity and human rights at its heart. It will empower people to make the choices that are right for them.”

One of my constituents has had eight social workers in eight months. The bill aims to slim out some of the bureaucracy and to make it easier—to make it a choice—for the people on the ground to choose self-directed support or whatever they want. I am interested in that aspect. Perhaps people need to hear more about what a framework bill is and what comes after that.

I will go to Alison Bavidge first.

We have NHS Education for Scotland and Healthcare Improvement Scotland. We now have Public Health Scotland. Our national health service workforce looks to those bodies for advice. The bill could enable our national care service to tap into expertise in NES, HIS and Public Health Scotland. Can we reasonably assume that that would support education and research?