Seòmar agus comataidhean

My questions have been covered, convener.

Good morning to you all.

Jill Barber just mentioned sea lice. I am interested in sea lice interactions with the wild salmon population. I have loads of pages open here, because a lot of work is being done by the North Atlantic Salmon Conservation Organization. The document that I have in front of me is a Government document that talks about the impacts of lice from fish farms on wild Scottish sea trout and salmon. There is lots of scientific information here about the impacts of sea lice on sea trout and wild salmon. Lots of modelling has been done, as well as observational and experimental studies. It is quite comprehensive, and work is being taken forward to look at the impacts of sea lice on wild salmon.

I am interested in hearing about what progress has been made to look at how we manage the impact of farmed salmon lice on the wild salmon population.

The words “co-design” and “co-production” are often used interchangeably but, in this case, we are pursuing co-design. Just yesterday, I had a conversation with an elected member who used “co-production” and “co-design” as if they were interchangeable. I am interested to hear about what the co-design process really is and how distinct it is from co-production.

I will pick up on some of the issues about engaging with COSLA and the unions. We took evidence from the Scottish Partnership for Palliative Care and heard that

“The national care service is a real opportunity to be part of improving people’s experiences of living with serious illness, and of dying and bereavement.”—[Official Report, Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, 13 December 2022; c 5.]

Age Scotland said that the Scottish Government has made it clear that there is a commitment to involving people with lived experience.

I would be interested in hearing about engagement with unions. I read a statement from Unison that said that

“the bill leaves profiteering at the heart of care”

and I know that there are concerns about employment and pensions. In contrast with the position of the Health and Social Care Alliance Scotland, the Scottish Partnership for Palliative Care and Age Scotland, who all welcome the bill, others have concerns and may feel that they need to have a voice. Can you speak about that, minister?

I have one final question on this wee section. Things such as the regional forums will help to identify the differences that you described, such as differences in pay. As a former nurse educator, I am interested in support for career pathways and career progression, and I think that a national standard approach would give more weight to career pathways for social workers and carers. Will the forums and the plans for regional approaches help to determine that a standardised approach to education will be part of the national aspect?

We need people to be empowered to understand that they will be part of the co-design process and that the bill is a framework that we will build on. Is that what we are asking people to believe and trust—that they will be part of the co-design?

When you made your opening statement, minister, you talked about the fact that you are a Highland MSP. The Highlands is a rural area. I am an MSP for South Scotland, which is also rural. There are complexities in designing impactful changes, so I am glad to hear about the processes that will be undertaken, especially those that will look at services.

In Dumfries and Galloway, there are no council-run care homes, but in the Borders, for instance, there is a mix of private and council-run care homes. Is that going to affect the work that is taken forward? Will that look at the fact that individual areas have specific needs?

In its report on the bill, which I have in front of me, COSLA made a positive statement. It said that it recognised that a national care service in some form

“could provide national leadership on matters such as workforce planning, training, terms and conditions, national standards, ethical procurement, registration, inspection, and improvement.”

However, COSLA had concerns, and it asked for the bill to be amended. That means that you will need to work with COSLA and with the relevant representatives, as you have indicated. I just wanted to clarify that.

Jeff Ace talked about a Scotland-wide approach, with combined or joint services. Do you mean combined human resources as part of joint work and integration, or combined financial services? Is that something that could work for NHS Dumfries and Galloway, which is a small board, or does there need to be a Scotland-wide approach, as well?

I have a quick question for Jeff Ace about international recruitment. You have been quite successful in recruiting nurses. Not only a warm welcome, orientation and training are required; a wider holistic approach is required. Is housing a challenge in recruiting folk to remote or rural areas such as Dumfries and Galloway? If so, what can be done about that?