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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 19 November 2025
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Displaying 1597 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Ross Greer

Good morning. James Wylie, I want to pursue with you the issue that Michelle Thomson raised about how to measure success, and what success looks like.

Do you take into account the outcomes in the national performance framework when you are measuring success locally in this regard, or are there not really relevant indicators for your local context, particularly in relation to success around language in an Orcadian context?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Ross Greer

Yes, I will bring James and Joanna in in a second, but I have a final question for Donald on that.

One of the challenges for us—across a range of legislation—relates to the balance between what we put in primary legislation to give definitive clarity versus what we want to put in secondary legislation and statutory guidance to allow for flexibility of approach and, in particular, localised approaches. Is there anything that could be included in the bill to provide more clarity or, ultimately, is it the case, as you have just indicated, that that should be left to the more flexible approach that secondary legislation gives us?

10:15  

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Ross Greer

One of the challenges that we have had historically, and have at the moment, is the lack of a national framework for measuring success in relation to Gaelic. We have the Government’s Gaelic language plan, and the plans and strategies that the bòrd has produced. However, beyond plans, we do not have clear national agreement on a framework for measuring success. The Government’s Gaelic language plan references the national performance framework not because there are clear indicators in it but to show the interaction between Gaelic and a range of other indicators, such as housing, communities and so on. What has been the barrier? Why are we not sitting here with a clear, nationally agreed framework for how we measure success in relation to Gaelic language?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Ross Greer

You make an important point about ownership, and a clear sense of ownership and accountability being a way to improve outcomes.

My next question is about whether the bill makes it clear how we measure that. It is going to give the Government much more accountability, and it will, we hope, put more scrutiny on the Government. However, from our perspective, and from a wider societal perspective, the question is, what are we scrutinising the Government for? How do we collectively as a society judge whether we have been successful, and how does the Government itself do that?

I am looking for your perspective on whether the bill itself makes that clear. Do you look at the bill and think, “It will be clear to me, five or 10 years from now, how we measure success based on what is in here”? Alternatively, could there be something else, either in the bill or external to it, to make it much clearer how we are going to measure success?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Ross Greer

Does anyone else have a perspective on what a framework for success looks like?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Ross Greer

Thank you. I will put the same question about measuring success to Donald Macleod and Joanna Peteranna. In the current policy landscape, before we take into consideration what the bill would do, are you clear about how you are supposed to be measuring success in your areas and what the metrics are? Is that something that you are able to do? Is the data available for you to confidently assess whether or not success is happening?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Ross Greer

I will put the same package of questions to Joanna Peteranna. Is Highlands and Islands Enterprise clear on how it should be measuring success currently? Will the bill change anything in relation to how you measure success?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Ross Greer

Thank you—that was really useful.

What impact will the bill have on your ability to measure success and on what success is defined as? Will the bill in itself have any significant impact on the challenges that you have just mentioned?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Ross Greer

Are there any provisions in the bill that would change how HIE measures success?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Ross Greer

Where should that sit in relation to the bill? We cannot be incredibly prescriptive with our measures of success in primary legislation because we do not know where we will be in 20 years on all sorts of fronts. However, the bill is an opportunity for us to create some requirements in that space.