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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 1 April 2025
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Displaying 502 contributions

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Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Judicial Factors (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Oliver Mundell

Yes, and that they had the training that would go with that.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Judicial Factors (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Oliver Mundell

That is helpful. I guess that also ties in, to a certain extent, with some of the questions about missing persons and about where non-financial criteria fit in the legislation. There is some overlap in the charity sections, with the potential for people to be judicial factors for trusts. We want to understand this as we approach stage 2. We are modernising very old legislation, and we note from the evidence that we have heard on various areas that there are points when financial return, or holding things static exactly as they are, are not the sole considerations that people would expect to be taken into account. Are we going to change the role of the judicial factor slightly under the bill?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Judicial Factors (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Oliver Mundell

The Law Society of Scotland, in its response to the committee’s call for views, said that the bill as introduced contains “a significant departure from” the Scottish Law Commission’s draft bill. It stated:

“Specifically, the Law Society considers that there has been a ‘watering down’ of the levels of legal and accountancy knowledge required for the roles of the Accountant and the Depute Accountant.”

On the other hand, the committee heard from the Scottish Courts and Tribunals Service that the bill reflects the existing approach, and that the existing approach works well. The SCTS believes that, as the same person who is the Accountant of Court also serves as the public guardian, it is important to think about a person’s suitability in the context of both roles, taking into account in particular that the public guardian’s work takes up the majority of the time.

Having heard all the evidence, does the Scottish Government agree with the SCTS, or are you minded to look again at the matter?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Judicial Factors (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Oliver Mundell

Yes—it is about the balance of skills within the team. I know that that becomes an operational matter, but—

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Judicial Factors (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Oliver Mundell

I hear that, and it is all helpful. I do not want to push you on that—I am conscious that you are an official, rather than the minister—but we have had the question of the level of qualification posed to us. There may not be any practical examples, but the Law Society is currently posing that question to us. It is coming from the Law Society, as a relatively significant stakeholder, rather than from me, so in that sense, it is not unfounded.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Judicial Factors (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Oliver Mundell

I thought that it was currently on the face of the bill and the question is whether it would be better to move it into guidance. That is my understanding.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Judicial Factors (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Oliver Mundell

That draws more attention to it than the Law Society feels is justified, given that it is already the law and it applies to everything. The Law Society feels that the specific mention of it almost overhighlights it, and that people who did not really understand what a judicial factor was might use that as a default reason not to engage.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Scottish Elections (Representation and Reform) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 May 2024

Oliver Mundell

That is good. I am not going to hold up my hand with something written on it.

The second bit of my question, which you did not respond to, was on the potential for candidacy to be opened up to foreign players who might wish to undermine Scotland’s electoral system. Do you think that that is a legitimate concern? Is it a risk that we should consider?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Scottish Elections (Representation and Reform) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 May 2024

Oliver Mundell

That is a fair point. It is all about how we police such matters, where we draw the line between people’s beliefs and the reasons why they are standing, and how we identify where those things come from and what is motivating them. Your response was helpful and meaningful.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Scottish Elections (Representation and Reform) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 May 2024

Oliver Mundell

It is a brief supplementary, convener.

Minister, you say that you are willing to work with people on the issue. I will gently push you on that. On some of these issues, it is for the Government to show leadership and not to leave the matter to committees or to individuals to push it forward.