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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 22 April 2025
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Displaying 1492 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Jamie Greene

If the political direction of travel is to send fewer people to prison and offer alternatives, that policy will rely on the adequacy of those alternatives and on there being not just public faith but judicial faith and confidence in them. We have heard from sheriffs and judges who do not trust that those sentences will be carried out or delivered properly. Therefore, that leaves them with little alternative but to send people to prison. We cannot simply divert people from prison if there is nothing to divert them to; otherwise, we will absolutely lose public confidence in the service. Are you mindful of that as well?

Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Jamie Greene

Good afternoon to our guests. This was not going to be the question that I was going to ask, but, after listening to that last exchange, I think that it should be.

Given that local authorities have statutory duties to perform these functions, in another model where a centralised nationalised service provides that service either directly by employing people—and becomes an employer of choice—or through some form of tendering, outsourcing or even direct awarding to preferred suppliers through a national contract or otherwise, it sounds as though the end scenario might be some form of privatisation of services that are currently delivered by the public sector. That sounds great if you are just about to buy shares in a private company that profits from that type of service, but not so great for those who currently work in it. My first question, therefore, is whether that is a genuine risk or just a perceived one. Secondly, what representations will you be making next to the Scottish Government, given all the concerns that you have voiced today and previously? I will start with Unison and then ask COSLA and Social Work Scotland to respond briefly.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Jamie Greene

Clearly, however, the loss of 4,500 officers would have a stark effect on Police Scotland’s ability to perform not just its statutory duties but its basic functions. We heard that the police simply would not turn up to certain types of crime—low-level crime, as it is often called—and would respond only to the most serious of events, due simply to being short of bodies, or boots on the ground. Clearly, that will be of concern to the public.

Therefore, the issue that the Government faces is that it must either concede to the demands for pay rises or simply say that there is a cap on how much money is available and accept the consequences. Those consequences could be industrial action, as we have seen already, officers leaving the force or, indeed, firefighters and other public service workers looking elsewhere for employment. How will the Government approach those negotiations, given that it is under substantial pressure to concede to the demands of not just the unions but others, too?

10:00  

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Jamie Greene

Thank you. I just wanted to check.

Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Jamie Greene

It certainly does—it was a very honest answer. Anil, do you have any comments?

Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Jamie Greene

My direct question to you, though, is: does this feel like we are using a sledgehammer to crack a nut? You have talked about weaknesses and strengths in the system, but would it not be better to address those weaknesses directly and get to the roots of some of the problems that social work and criminal justice social work face before introducing into the process a new tier of management that will inevitably take work from local authorities and then just give it back to them? It just seems like an unnecessary and cumbersome step in the process.

Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Jamie Greene

Finally, I have what you might call a simple A, B or C question. Would it be your preference to pause the bill in its entirety in order to go back and perform that much-needed consultation that you spoke of; scrap it completely because you think that the whole idea is completely bonkers; or remove the criminal justice elements from the bill and let the rest of it proceed? I guess that all those options are open to Government.

Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Jamie Greene

I think that it falls somewhere between A and B. Thank you very much for that. Does COSLA have a view?

Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Jamie Greene

Thank you. That was very helpful.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Jamie Greene

No, I will let others come in. I have had a good run.