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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 8 November 2025
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Displaying 1737 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 June 2023

Jamie Greene

You supply the resource budget, so you have to sign off the cheque.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 June 2023

Jamie Greene

Good morning, cabinet secretary and other guests.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 June 2023

Jamie Greene

I apologise if I have not explained myself properly. I just want to ensure that the very specific comments that the SPF has made will be taken into account by the PNBS as it finalises the wording of the constitution.

10:15  

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 June 2023

Jamie Greene

Yes, it would. In doing so, perhaps the officials could refer to the issues that the SPF has raised. It has clearly pre-empted scenarios that might be problematic and that it feels need to be addressed to avoid any future deadlock.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 June 2023

Jamie Greene

You are right. The SPF requests the following wording:

“Sides may nominate persons who are not”

necessarily

“representatives to serve on subcommittees and working groups with the permission of the”

chair. I presume that that permission will be carried forward in the new set-up.

This is important, given that, in the past year or so, we have seen disagreements over pay settlements and, as the cabinet secretary has said, the police cannot take the same type of strike action that other public services have taken or have threatened to take. However, they have taken industrial action of a different type, which has clearly had an effect on their ability to carry out certain functions. As we have already seen, they have, for example, resorted to principal statutory duties, withdrawn good will and so on.

Given the knowledge that there is a history of disagreement over pay, is the new scenario more or less likely to produce agreement? Will there be any alterations to the action that the police can or cannot take in the event of a dispute or, indeed, deadlock?

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 31 May 2023

Jamie Greene

It was more in relation to somebody, for example, commuting from their temporary place of residence to the conference centre and something happening in that environment, whereby they could argue that they had immunity. However, that is fine.

The other question is more general. What discussions has the Scottish or UK Government had with Police Scotland about policing the event? Has there been any analysis of the resourcing levels that will be required, or has there been a finger in the air on the financial cost? That is not an issue as such, but it is important for the committee to keep a watching eye on such things.

Criminal Justice Committee

Tackling Online Child Abuse, Grooming and Exploitation

Meeting date: 31 May 2023

Jamie Greene

It is fascinating and we could probably have a whole-day symposium on that subject alone.

I have one final question. I feel a bit like an audience member on “Question Time” with this one. What does the panel believe would be an appropriate level of sentencing for someone who is charged and prosecuted for possessing indecent images of children? I will start with the police.

Criminal Justice Committee

Tackling Online Child Abuse, Grooming and Exploitation

Meeting date: 31 May 2023

Jamie Greene

That is very diplomatic of you. The reason why I ask is that the last time a survey was done on public perception of sentencing—it was pre-Covid and I do not know whether there has been one since—77 per cent of the public believed that someone should receive a custodial sentence for a crime of that nature. Very few believed that something such as a community payback order or some form of educational mandatory statutory treatment would be an appropriate sentence.

I am not putting forward a view; I am simply asking for your opinion. I appreciate that it is difficult for policing to comment on what are independent guidelines by the Scottish Sentencing Council, but I am sure that others have a view. Stuart Allardyce, you must have a view on this.

Criminal Justice Committee

Tackling Online Child Abuse, Grooming and Exploitation

Meeting date: 31 May 2023

Jamie Greene

Thank you—you make an interesting point, which touches on the one that Stuart Allardyce made about the language that we use and the need to not put young people off coming forward when there are actual issues, as opposed to day-to-day behaviour that they do not deem to be inappropriate, for example.

Who is best placed to get that message across? Should teachers do that in the classroom? Should it be done peer to peer? Is it a case of educating parents on how to have very frank and normal conversations about these things without being embarrassed? Given that, as you said, we are in an integrated world where Snapchatting in the playground to someone who is 3m away is normal behaviour, when we are putting together all these wonderful strategies and getting Governments to come together and legislate for change to improve things, surely a grass-roots approach that involves talking to young people on the ground at the earliest opportunity is the best way to get positive messages across on how to deal with problematic situations.

I will bring in Joanne Smith, because she probably has a lot of experience in this area.

Criminal Justice Committee

Tackling Online Child Abuse, Grooming and Exploitation

Meeting date: 31 May 2023

Jamie Greene

That is very interesting. By its very nature, AI is designed to create unnatural fantasy environments that have not hitherto existed in the real world. That could definitely be problematic in some circumstances.