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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 4 April 2025
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Displaying 1492 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Jamie Greene

It is good that you mentioned that, because I am just about to come on to that issue.

I will take a step back and ask a more fundamental question about an issue that I have been grappling with throughout the session and when I read your report. What is your understanding of the point of the target? The target is to reduce the number of miles driven by domestic cars in Scotland. What is the point of that? What is the Government trying to achieve by reducing that figure?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Jamie Greene

Let us say that a million miles were driven by combustion engine cars and that was reduced by 20 per cent in the way that the target seems to suggest. It is assumed that that would reduce emissions. That assumption underpins the strategy. However, if we went in the other direction and 1.5 million miles were driven by electric or hybrid cars, instead of a million miles being driven by combustion engine cars, there might still be a reduction in emissions, even though the mileage that was driven by the public would have gone up.

I would have some sympathy if the Government simply dropped the target, provided that it did so for the right reason. If it was trying to reduce emissions and could demonstrate that other policies would achieve the same result, the target in itself would perhaps be irrelevant.

11:00  

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Jamie Greene

Realistically, given that we are sitting here in the Parliament, I have to ask which Government in its right mind, particularly coming into an election year, would implement punitive measures such as national charging or road tolls, or start rolling out national measures—rather than doing things at a local level and blaming the councils—by introducing primary legislation that imposes expensive measures on drivers. Surely that would be political suicide for any Government in any jurisdiction. The measures might help to meet the target, but they are very unlikely to happen.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 19 February 2025

Jamie Greene

The exit, for the record, cost the taxpayer £104,000. Is it normal for agencies that are sponsored by the Scottish Government to come to you after they have spent the money and ask, “Can you retrospectively approve this?”

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 19 February 2025

Jamie Greene

Is it malpractice?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 19 February 2025

Jamie Greene

Okay, so he resigned or he retired. What was the circumstance?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 19 February 2025

Jamie Greene

And that was accepted and hence the presence of Mr Hinds. Okay; that is understood.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 19 February 2025

Jamie Greene

I am sorry, I am not trying to be difficult; I am trying to get to the bottom of this. Someone has not been entirely truthful with the committee. Someone is not being entirely honest about what has happened: either the former chair of WICS, in his commentary to us about the approval process, or someone sitting in this room. I want to get to the bottom of it. I know that we have laboured this in the previous committee session, but it is important. Did someone from the Scottish Government give approval for the package? He says that that is what happened.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 19 February 2025

Jamie Greene

There was; it was part of the conversation. He said that there was a phone call on 19 December—

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 19 February 2025

Jamie Greene

Mr Brannen, does this whole line of questioning not strike you as concerning? We have heard conflicting views from all the protagonists involved and the committee is as yet unable to establish the truth of the matter about this business case. There is an opinion from the board, there is an opinion from the individual who has since written to us about his departure, and there is an opinion from the cabinet secretary, Ms Màiri McAllan, who, in letters to the committee, expressed a view about who was at fault. On two occasions, this committee has heard from members of the Scottish Government about what they think happened.

Our poor clerks have to write a report on this, and I think that they will struggle to identify the truth of the matter. What is your view?