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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 4 July 2025
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Displaying 1604 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Jamie Greene

You mentioned the three cohorts of people who have been sentenced by a judge or sheriff for making a mistake in life. I presume that something serious would have to have happened for a custodial decision to be taken. There are people who are institutionalised, with patterns of offending, because they feel safer and more comfortable in that type of life, away from harm outside in the real world, and there are people who are very unwell. Do you mean that they have been traumatised by historical adverse experiences in life and have mental health issues?

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Jamie Greene

What do you think their role is? I have grappled with that question over the past year as we have taken a lot of evidence on the issues. Do they have a role in Scottish justice?

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Jamie Greene

Okay. However, you do not think that they should be there.

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Jamie Greene

So you could immediately accommodate a substantive change to how and where people are placed.

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Jamie Greene

How many of the 84 beds in secure accommodation, which is designed to cater for 16 and 17-year-olds under the current legislation, are available or were available at the time when those people were placed in Polmont? I am trying to understand why you have them at all.

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Jamie Greene

Finally, what would you like to see from the Crown Office? I am not talking about any live proceedings—that would not be appropriate—but five years is clearly an awfully long time to wait for anything to happen. You are not the only family that has been waiting that long. What improvements would you like to see in the Crown Office? What would be your big ask of the new justice minister?

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Jamie Greene

I am going to start with a question for Gerald Michie. Gerald, you said that there are seven children in the prison estate.

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Jamie Greene

Okay, so none of the people that you have in Polmont is there as a result of a lack of capacity in secure accommodation.

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Jamie Greene

Who made the decision to put them in Polmont?

Criminal Justice Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 March 2023

Jamie Greene

I really appreciate your feedback. All of that will be noted and considered when we look at the implications of the financial memorandum to the bill.

As you might have picked up from my questions to the previous panel, I am trying to get my head round what people believe the role of young offenders institutions is. If there is general agreement that they are not the place for 16 and 17-year-olds—and perhaps not even the place for those who are older, depending on the direction of travel of the bill—what type of people ought to be held in YOIs in Scotland? Is it about age, the nature of the offence or the perceived risk to the public or victims? It is quite hard to get your head round what sort of environment YOIs should be.

That might be a question for the Government because, ultimately, it controls which institutions we have, but do you have any comments?