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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 18 September 2025
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Displaying 1656 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 June 2023

Jamie Greene

Absolutely.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 June 2023

Jamie Greene

I understand that, but the problem with continuity—and what I think people will be concerned about—is that it might be continuity of the status quo, which, in this case, means annual pay bargaining that ends up in industrial dispute and the removal of services and withdrawal of good will by officers.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 June 2023

Jamie Greene

The rabbit hole that we are going down is based on the evidence that we have in our committee papers from one of the leading protagonists in negotiations, so it is absolutely right that we raise those points, given that the SPF is not here to give us evidence prior to the vote.

The problem that we have is more of a procedural one. From what I understand, there is potential to revise the constitution but that would need to be done by regulation. What is the point of passing regulations to rubber stamp the constitution as it is, knowing that there are stakeholders who wish changes to be made and that future regulations that implement any changes will have to come back to the Parliament? Why not do it in one go?

It would be better for the Government to have a discussion with those who have presented evidence and, if any changes to the constitution have to be made, come back with regulations and do it as a one-hit wonder. I have no problem with the regulations, but I have a problem with being asked to rubber stamp a constitution with which some stakeholders clearly have problems.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 June 2023

Jamie Greene

Okay. So, the PNB makes recommendations to ministers. Is it then up to ministers to agree or disagree, or is the final decision what the PNB has recommended?

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 June 2023

Jamie Greene

I want to comment on that second level. Obviously, the SPF has seen the draft—I presume that it is a draft—of the constitution that has been published. It has made specific comments as to the content of a number of paragraphs—3, 9, 37, 42, 43, 44 and 45. To go back to my original question, will there be scope for the constitution to be amended prior to being finalised?

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 June 2023

Jamie Greene

Does the Government have any override function, in terms of decisions that are made?

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 June 2023

Jamie Greene

Right.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 June 2023

Jamie Greene

Yes. Specifically on that, although the letter from the SPF is a matter of public record, it is worth saying on the record that the SPF feedback on section 37 of the constitution states:

“There seems to be scope for either of the Sides to prevent such a matter going to arbitration or for the Chairperson to decide not to refer a matter to arbitration and this could lead to a deadlock.”

On section 42, the SPF states:

“It is hard to envisage the Board failing to make recommendations based on an arbitration award. It seems to open the door for either Side to delay or block a PNB agreement based on an arbitration award and this would be highly unsatisfactory.”

I guess that I am looking for feedback on that.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 June 2023

Jamie Greene

Thank you for that clarity.

Finally, what role would the Scottish ministers play in any of these proceedings?

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 June 2023

Jamie Greene

You supply the resource budget, so you have to sign off the cheque.