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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 26 April 2025
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Displaying 1492 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

“Investing in Scotland’s infrastructure”

Meeting date: 7 March 2024

Jamie Greene

The consequentials could be used in that way. Have you had a discussion with ministers about that?

Public Audit Committee

“Investing in Scotland’s infrastructure”

Meeting date: 7 March 2024

Jamie Greene

Before you do that, other members might want to speak about specific projects, which would give you an opportunity to elicit some of the detail.

I presume that, when you were looking at overall budgets five to 10 years ago, at the conception stage, buffer zones would have been introduced to cover potential rises in costs or inflationary costs—those could be rises associated with pure inflation or other associated rises. However, it seems that all the headroom has gone completely, and that that is the reason why you are now making prioritisation choices as opposed to wondering how to pay for things that have already been committed to.

Public Audit Committee

“Investing in Scotland’s infrastructure”

Meeting date: 7 March 2024

Jamie Greene

Let us face it: very few large-scale infrastructure projects come in under budget, and all governments suffer from things tending to overreach massively. It is a common problem.

However, I want to work out what on earth the Scottish Government will do next when choosing where to spend its money. It had a £5.9 billion capital budget last year. Although, arguably, that will reduce over the coming years, it is still a substantial amount of money, but it is clearly not enough to complete the projects that have hitherto been committed to.

The Auditor General was critical that it is unclear how the Government chooses to prioritise infrastructure spending. What process will the Government go through to decide whether to replace a prison or to build a national treatment centre, for example? There are clearly competing calls for both, depending on which objectives it is trying to meet.

Public Audit Committee

“Investing in Scotland’s infrastructure”

Meeting date: 7 March 2024

Jamie Greene

So will nothing be built at all?

Public Audit Committee

“Investing in Scotland’s infrastructure”

Meeting date: 7 March 2024

Jamie Greene

I am sure that we can delve into that further. That is a worrying response.

On the capital maintenance backlog, the one thing that struck me as really concerning is in paragraph 26 on page 18 of the Auditor General’s briefing paper:

“The Scottish Government cannot currently provide an overall figure for the level of capital maintenance backlog across the Scottish estate.”

Is that because the information is not available or because the number is available but is just too scary? We know, for example, that the national health service backlog is over £1 billion, and I have heard figures of around £500 million for the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service. I am sure that there are figures for the prisons, the police estate and the courts. That is before we even take into account things such as uncovering reinforced autoclaved aerated concrete—RAAC—in buildings, which is still happening almost weekly.

Are we looking down the barrel of a complete disaster in maintenance backlogs with which we will never be able to catch up? That is perhaps a question for Ms Stafford.

Public Audit Committee

“Investing in Scotland’s infrastructure”

Meeting date: 7 March 2024

Jamie Greene

Have you been able to—or have you had to—quantify the financial effect of the Bute house agreement commitments on previous capital commitments? In other words, have you been able to calculate the cost of meeting different objectives—inclusive growth, wellbeing or other net zero objectives—that did not exist when the projects were initially costed? Have you been able to calculate the cost of those changes in government?

Public Audit Committee

“Investing in Scotland’s infrastructure”

Meeting date: 7 March 2024

Jamie Greene

Before I go on to maintenance, I want to give Mr Morrison the chance to say something. I am sure that he did not want to get out of bed early for nothing.

I have a specific question, Mr Morrison. I believe that you are in charge of health infrastructure investment. Will you give us some comfort that the remaining six of the promised 11 national treatment centres will go ahead? The briefing paper from Audit Scotland sheds some doubt on whether that is the case.

Public Audit Committee

“Investing in Scotland’s infrastructure”

Meeting date: 7 March 2024

Jamie Greene

Based on what we have just heard, there is no estate replacement strategy. It is all on pause. You have accumulated an immense backlog and you have talked at great length about the 2024-25 budget. It is absolutely right to look at what we have in the purse at the moment, but backlogs, by their nature, are an accumulation of underinvestment over a substantial period—a decade or more in some cases. Is it the case that we simply did not fix the roof while the sun was shining, which has left us in the precarious position of having billions of pounds’ worth of backlogs from which we might never recover?

Public Audit Committee

“Investing in Scotland’s infrastructure”

Meeting date: 7 March 2024

Jamie Greene

But it was there. That is the point. It might not be there now, but it was there for many years.

Public Audit Committee

“Investing in Scotland’s infrastructure”

Meeting date: 7 March 2024

Jamie Greene

Good morning to our panel of guests, and thank you for your comments thus far. I want to follow on from the conversation that we have started. My first question is topical and comes off the back of yesterday’s UK budget statement. I have a specific question—this might be a matter of correcting my knowledge. Analysis, which I think is publicly and widely available, states that £295 million of Barnett consequentials were announced in the statement, but that that was revenue as opposed to capital, as you rightly said. Is there any flexibility in the system that would allow the Scottish Government to convert revenue funding to capital if it chose or desired to do that?