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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 18 September 2025
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Displaying 1656 contributions

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Meeting of the Commission

“Quality of public audit in Scotland: Annual report 2023/24”

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Jamie Greene

I want to pick up on a few issues that have come up, particularly the variation between in-house auditing and that done by external auditors. Do you have any statistical information that could allow us to compare performance or completion against targets, for example? That would give us a feel for whether external auditors are more on target than your internal teams, or not, as the case may be.

Meeting of the Commission

“Quality of public audit in Scotland: Annual report 2023/24”

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Jamie Greene

I ask you to stick to the timeliness of completion, as I have some other questions about that.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Jamie Greene

A very good morning to you. I will see if my voice lasts; I will try my best. As you can probably hear, I am recovering from illness, including Covid.

I thought that I would share a little story with you, because it is probably indicative of a situation that many people in Scotland have found themselves in. When I was unwell, I made the decision to call 111 for assistance, in line with the advice. I picked up the phone at 8 pm, and—I know this because I have just checked the data on my mobile phone—I spent two hours and 24 minutes trying to speak to somebody. The call was not answered for an hour and 12 minutes and I was in a waiting queue along, I presume, with many other people. I expect that many of those people simply hung up, but I hung in there as best I could.

When the call was answered, it was dealt with by a operator who was not medically trained, but who did their best to assist. The outcome of that two-and-a-half-hour phone call was simply this: “If you feel really bad, go to the hospital, or we’ll get an out-of-hours GP to call you back.” I said, “Yes, please.” The out-of-hours general practitioner eventually called me back at 2 o’clock in the morning—some six and a half hours after I first called. The outcome of that conversation was to be told, “If you feel really bad, phone an ambulance or get yourself to hospital; otherwise, call your GP in the morning.” I duly did that.

The third and final part of my story is that I called the GP at 3 minutes past 8 that same morning and was told that there were no appointments left, because it was 3 minutes past 8. I was told—guess where this is going—to call 111 or, if I felt really unwell, to get myself to hospital.

I suspect that that is an experience that is shared by many people. Does that really sound like an NHS that is working for people?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Jamie Greene

I ask because the data that I have is from the Audit Scotland report, which is from September 2023, so you may have something more up to date.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Jamie Greene

Yes, please.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Jamie Greene

It is 6.2 per cent.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Jamie Greene

On sickness, anyone who speaks to people who work in the NHS will tell you that they are super stressed. In the past couple of weeks, campaigning members of the Parliament have had the luxury of chapping on people’s doors, probably much to their annoyance. Frequently, we have heard that many NHS staff are considering leaving the profession altogether. Absence due to stress and long-term health issues seems to be a problem. I appreciate that people get acutely sick—we all get sick, including NHS staff—and some people get Covid. However, I want to understand the underlying absence levels due to long-term illness. What is the trajectory on those? What are you doing to support people who work in our NHS?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Jamie Greene

Here is the problem: the situation that I found myself in was not an accident or, indeed, an emergency. Many people will present at hospital simply because there is no other option available to them, and that is adding a huge amount of pressure to our accident and emergency departments.

There is a situation, when someone has taken unwell, that falls outside a regular GP visit or appointment but in relation to which, between 3 minutes past 8 in the morning and 8 o’clock the following morning, there is simply no option other than to spend three hours on the phone to 111 and not achieve anything, or to turn up at hospital. That is my point. The system feels broken, and there are thousands of people out there who feel the same way.

Are we looking at this in the right way? Is there any fresh or blue-sky thinking about how we deal with people who want to speak to a clinician as quickly as possible but do not want to burden the hospital system and absolutely cannot get an appointment with their GP, sometimes for weeks on end? There has to be a middle ground somewhere, and it does not sound as though there is one.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Jamie Greene

Where are we at with A and E at the moment? There has been a lot of discussion recently about how long people have to wait once they get to A and E. There is a four-hour waiting time target, which I believe means that 95 per cent of people should be admitted, discharged or transferred for treatment within four hours of presenting. What is the current statistic?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Jamie Greene

That is so way off target. You are 30 percentage points off the target. What is going wrong?