The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
The Official Report search offers lots of different ways to find the information you’re looking for. The search is used as a professional tool by researchers and third-party organisations. It is also used by members of the public who may have less parliamentary awareness. This means it needs to provide the ability to run complex searches, and the ability to browse reports or perform a simple keyword search.
The web version of the Official Report has three different views:
Depending on the kind of search you want to do, one of these views will be the best option. The default view is to show the report for each meeting of Parliament or a committee. For a simple keyword search, the results will be shown by item of business.
When you choose to search by a particular MSP, the results returned will show each spoken contribution in Parliament or a committee, ordered by date with the most recent contributions first. This will usually return a lot of results, but you can refine your search by keyword, date and/or by meeting (committee or Chamber business).
We’ve chosen to display the entirety of each MSP’s contribution in the search results. This is intended to reduce the number of times that users need to click into an actual report to get the information that they’re looking for, but in some cases it can lead to very short contributions (“Yes.”) or very long ones (Ministerial statements, for example.) We’ll keep this under review and get feedback from users on whether this approach best meets their needs.
There are two types of keyword search:
If you select an MSP’s name from the dropdown menu, and add a phrase in quotation marks to the keyword field, then the search will return only examples of when the MSP said those exact words. You can further refine this search by adding a date range or selecting a particular committee or Meeting of the Parliament.
It’s also possible to run basic Boolean searches. For example:
There are two ways of searching by date.
You can either use the Start date and End date options to run a search across a particular date range. For example, you may know that a particular subject was discussed at some point in the last few weeks and choose a date range to reflect that.
Alternatively, you can use one of the pre-defined date ranges under “Select a time period”. These are:
If you search by an individual session, the list of MSPs and committees will automatically update to show only the MSPs and committees which were current during that session. For example, if you select Session 1 you will be show a list of MSPs and committees from Session 1.
If you add a custom date range which crosses more than one session of Parliament, the lists of MSPs and committees will update to show the information that was current at that time.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 1619 contributions
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 6 June 2024
Jamie Greene
Mr Rennick, you are next, I am afraid. Back in 2022, when I sat on the Justice Committee, I asked a similar question about the difference between privately run prisons and Government-run ones, and the response from His Majesty’s chief inspector of prisons response was that HMP Kilmarnock
“is the cheapest prison in Scotland”—[Official Report, Justice Committee, 9 November 2022; c 8.]
to run. My initial question is: was the decision to move the prison into public ownership based on value for money or was it solely a policy decision?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 6 June 2024
Jamie Greene
As the Public Audit Committee, we obviously have an interest in money, and I am still struggling to get my head around any comparison. I am yet to see, on paper anyway, what the prison cost to run in an average year under Serco and what it will cost to run under SPS. We do not have that comparison, which I think is unfortunate.
What we know about the figures is that the average cost per prisoner is around £52,000 a year under Serco’s direction and management. Can you tell me what that number will look like under the SPS? Is it higher or lower?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 6 June 2024
Jamie Greene
Did your directorate do any modelling of what the potential financial impact on the public purse might be? It is easy to say that we should wait and see what it costs, but that is the mop-up after. Should that work not have been done before the transfer?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 6 June 2024
Jamie Greene
Finally, I guess that what matters is outcomes. The prison is not a hotel; the issue is not just about turnover and the number of people who come through it and how much it costs to run it. What analysis has been done of what benefits may be reaped from the prison being under the control of the SPS rather than Serco? For example, what is the staff to prisoner ratio before and after the changeover? What do the reoffending rates look like? What are the rehabilitation rates? What do the drug and contraband figures look like at HMP Kilmarnock versus the average for the rest of the estate? It would be useful to see those sorts of metrics and that analysis. Have you done any of that work?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 6 June 2024
Jamie Greene
Thanks for the update. I will come back in later with some PFI questions.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 6 June 2024
Jamie Greene
That gets to the nub of my question. When times are good and there is money in the bank, the Government can easily decide that, because it has the cash, it would rather fund this stuff directly either through Government borrowing or through capital that it has in reserve and that it would want to try to avoid or to minimise private investment where possible because of the repayments, interest and other costs associated with it, and that is not the direction of travel that it wants to take.
However, as you have just outlined, we are now in very different times. Constraints on capital investment mean that there is less money to go around. In that scenario, if, for example, I knocked on your door tomorrow and said, “I am happy to build a replacement for HMP Greenock or HMP Dumfries”—both of which are in desperate need of replacement—would the door be open to the models out there and could a deal be done, or is it just simply a case of the Government wanting to spend only what it has?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 6 June 2024
Jamie Greene
Just to be clear, it was not a performance-related issue. There were no operational issues. It was solely, as you said, a policy decision. I will not use the word “political”, as that would not be fair on you, but it was certainly a ministerial decision that the Government wanted to go in that direction of travel, irrespective of the cost.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 6 June 2024
Jamie Greene
In your previous appearance before the committee, which I will not revisit, we talked quite extensively about the pressures on the prison population. Where is HMP Kilmarnock in that regard? Is it one of the ones in the red? Is it nearing capacity? Do we have any issues there?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 6 June 2024
Jamie Greene
You cannot go through a supermarket without being greeted by somebody with a body-worn camera. It seems odd that our prison staff do not have them.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 6 June 2024
Jamie Greene
We look forward to that.
My second question is about PFI contracts, where there is still a bit more digging to be done and other members might do that. I am still a bit confused about how many such contracts are coming to an end in the next couple of years and what the cost to the public purse will be. We may revisit that before we end this evidence session, but do you expect those contracts to come to a natural end or are ministers mooting an early contract termination on some of them? There is a difference there and I presume there is a cost.