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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 8 January 2025
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Displaying 1309 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Jamie Greene

Given how difficult it is to bring charges and achieve convictions and successful prosecutions, and that we already have a wide-ranging set of laws prohibiting misuse of such devices, would the Government support a lengthy or lifetime ban from entering a football stadium anywhere in Scotland as a deterrent or incentive not to bring devices into sporting stadiums? Will the Government actively discuss that with clubs?

10:15  

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Jamie Greene

I dare say. We heard lots of evidence on some of the localised issues. Do you not think that there may be slight confusion among the public, because they are getting the legislation in a very piecemeal way? There was the aggravator offence around attacking emergency service workers, which I will not go into today. There was the banning of sale to minors, then the firework control zones, then the banning of pyrotechnics and flares. Then there is the restricted sale, purchase and use. All that is taking place at different times and in different places. Is there a risk that we are undermining the underlying objective of the legislation by causing confusion around what people can and cannot do? A lot of people simply do not know what the rules are.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Jamie Greene

That is great.

I have questions on a few other bits and bobs. The first is about the public awareness campaign. The provisions will commence in June this year, but the committee passed the bill last year. Would it not have been helpful to start the public awareness campaign a little earlier? Is there any reason why it has been delayed until after the commencement of the legislation?

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Jamie Greene

My final question is on firework control zones, the introduction of which you mentioned is imminent. How many local authorities will introduce firework control zones? I recall that that was quite a meaty part of the legislation and much of the feedback from local authorities and their representative bodies was that it would come at a cost to them. I appreciate that you will introduce that legislation before summer recess and I am sure that we will have time to talk about it then, but that is not far away. What preparatory work has taken place in conjunction with local authorities to assist them financially to set up the zones and to run any local public awareness campaigns? Do we have any idea how many fireworks control zones there will be this coming year and where they might be?

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Jamie Greene

Just to be clear, the financial memorandum also states that there will be no effect on business. I know that we are drip feeding the instruments to commence the legislation and that the restriction on the sale and purchase will not be until, I presume, 2025 or thereafter. There will be no compensation scheme in place until then. Is that correct?

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Jamie Greene

I will try to rattle through my questions. Welcome to the committee, minister; congratulations on your appointment.

I want to first address the issue of pyrotechnics and flare misuse at sporting events, particularly football matches, which are clearly the most high-profile events that have been reported in the media. The existing legislation—the 1995 act—makes it illegal for pyrotechnics to be taken into sporting events, but it is clear that it is failing, otherwise we would not need to afford the police more powers. Can you explain the difference between what is already legal in football stadiums and what will happen in June, for the benefit of people who attend such venues?

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Jamie Greene

It is not difficult to see who is letting off pyrotechnics. They are on camera and there are security guards around the stadium. The police must have a fair amount of intelligence on the individuals who are routinely responsible for that. I mention that because it is not only individuals; there seems to be a concerted and collective effort to let off flares at specific points during or before games. We have also seen the unfurling of banners related to the pyrotechnics issue.

What consultation has the Scottish Government had with football clubs, the Scottish Football Association and supporters organisations? Clearly, there is an underlying problem that is not limited to individuals breaking the law; events are clearly co-ordinated. How on earth will the police tackle the sheer volume of people who are letting off pyrotechnics?

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Jamie Greene

Before you do, we are interested in why the clubs themselves not facing any penalty or liability if their supporters are routinely breaking the existing law and will clearly be breaking the new laws that we have passed. It seems to happen endlessly and there seem to be no consequences for the clubs. Is that conversation with clubs taking place?

Mary Hockenhull, I am looking at you. I am sorry; that is unfair.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Jamie Greene

It is quite a strong deterrent for a person—knowing that they might end up in a prison cell.

Criminal Justice Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 26 April 2023

Jamie Greene

Not on that issue, but I think that it is a very good suggestion from Rona Mackay to challenge that and keep the pressure on.

I do not know when the committee is next due to have the SPA in front of us, but it is probably not for some time. Obviously, we are already within that financial budget year and will be looking ahead to the next one. I am not a forensic accountant, and I wonder whether someone—either the SPA, the Scottish Parliament information centre or others—can help us to understand the overallocation that it talks about, because it is quite significant. Again, I am not an accountant, but in effect the SPA is saying that this year it will spend more than it has by about £30-odd million, but it is a bit unclear how that all pans out in the books.

Again, we do not want to start pre-budget scrutiny for the next financial year straight off the bat with 30-odd million quid off the bottom line that has to come out to fund this year’s investment. Very few public agencies can overspend in this way. The SPA has obviously found a clever way of accounting for it, but I would like to understand it a little bit more.