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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 14 July 2025
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Displaying 1619 contributions

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Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the Year to 31 March 2024

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Jamie Greene

Probably not that long.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the Year to 31 March 2024

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Jamie Greene

That is great, and it is good news. That leads me sideways into another question, which is about your ways of working. The paragraph on that in the annual report is relatively short and does not really say much. We have had a lot of conversation about your high rent costs across your three offices, yet, post pandemic, you seem to be operating a much more hybrid model. Is there no way that you could reduce running costs rather than see them go up? They should surely be coming down.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the Year to 31 March 2024

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Jamie Greene

I believe that you were here, David, for the earlier evidence session, so you will have followed that line of questioning. At any point when you were looking at the accounts, did any of the issues that we identified in relation to where there was quite large variance in the accounts raise questions?

I will refer to two examples that might help you come to an answer on this. The travel and subsistence budget went from £500,000 to the reported figure in the accounts of only £82,000, which raises the question of whether there was just a change in the way that things are reported—that is, whether the line that such things appear in has changed due to changes in accounting practices—or whether there has been a huge reduction in the forecast figure versus the used.

The depreciation figure almost doubled from £500,000 to £1 million. Did those things raise flags as you went through the accounts, and were there any conversations around them?

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the Year to 31 March 2024

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Jamie Greene

Are you generally content with the rationale and explanations that have been given, including what you have heard this morning?

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the Year to 31 March 2024

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Jamie Greene

It is just that there is a variance of 15 per cent between what was approved at budget and what was spent, which is stark. I guess that I was trying to get under the skin of why the costs went up so much. I wondered whether some of the external firms charged higher rates or different multiples, such as double or triple time, in order to get work finished. I am a little further forward in understanding the 15 per cent figure, but I still do not fully understand it.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Jamie Greene

Yes—I was called back at 2 in the morning. I have to say that all the people whom I spoke to were lovely. I am really grateful to every one of them: it was clear that they were all really overworked and were doing their best.

However, I think that you get the gist of my point. People end up in a vicious circle in which the only option is to present to A and E, and we all know the problems that A and E departments are facing.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Jamie Greene

I will move on, because there is a lot to cover.

We have to talk about delayed discharge. I know that this is not a political setting, but ministers have promised to eradicate delayed discharge. That is ambitious and probably not achievable. There are targets—official and unofficial—but the statistics do not seem to bear out that progress is being made on that.

That can be analysed in a number of ways, such as by using the average number of people per month who are waiting to be discharged or the number of days that are spent in hospital by people who are ready to be discharged. I will not go into all the numbers, but where are we at with delayed discharge in Scotland at the moment? Are we making any progress at all, or are things getting worse?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Jamie Greene

There is not continual improvement; it is continually getting worse.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Jamie Greene

That goes back to my first question. If no other options are available, it is no surprise that people present at hospital. Therefore, the rest of the system needs to be working in order to take the pressure off. However, that is not a new problem. We have been talking about that problem in the Parliament for more than a decade—it has definitely been talked about in the Parliament for longer than I have been an MSP. Why have we not got to the bottom of that? Is it simply the case that people are getting sicker? Are there more sick people or not enough doctors? What on earth is going on? Why do we still face endless missed targets and waiting times that are going up and up?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Jamie Greene

So the current performance rate is about 65 to 70 per cent.