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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 2 April 2025
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Displaying 1492 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

National Strategy for Economic Transformation

Meeting date: 9 May 2024

Jamie Greene

Is that not part of the problem? It is not a direct criticism of those involved in the delivery of the strategy, but you have something that is impossible to measure because it feeds into a much wider macroeconomic situation. Therefore, it is very difficult to quantify whether you are doing well, whether the strategy is working, whether it is performing relative to value for money and whether many of the criticisms that are in the Auditor General’s report are valid or not. Is that not an impossible task that you have, to prove to us, to the Auditor General and to the Government that the strategy is working and is worth while? How can you refresh something if you do not know what effect it is having on the economy?

Public Audit Committee

National Strategy for Economic Transformation

Meeting date: 9 May 2024

Jamie Greene

If you scrap the economic leadership group, what do you think you would replace it with? What would be a suitable way to oversee the delivery of the strategy?

Public Audit Committee

National Strategy for Economic Transformation

Meeting date: 9 May 2024

Jamie Greene

Yes, but your strategy has been lauded as having had success. Numerically, what economic success do we have?

Public Audit Committee

National Strategy for Economic Transformation

Meeting date: 9 May 2024

Jamie Greene

I think that the importance of the economic leadership group has unearthed itself in the course of the meeting. I am sure that it is regrettable that the group has failed to give the leadership that it has been given its due place. I am sure that that is something that you will consider, moving forward.

I am sure that colleagues will mention other areas of interest on which it sounds as though you might not particularly agree with the Audit Scotland report. I am sure that we will elicit those from you over the course of the meeting.

Convener—I am happy to pass on to colleagues.

Public Audit Committee

National Strategy for Economic Transformation

Meeting date: 9 May 2024

Jamie Greene

The risk is that you are hanging on the coat tails of other things that were happening anyway. I heard in your opening statement that the roll-out of R100 was one of your great successes. That was happening anyway: it was a Government project that was funded centrally from the United Kingdom Government, so of course it was going to happen at some point. However, whether it is a measure of success of NSET is debatable.

On that note, director general, I apologise if I do not use the specific wording, but I think that you said that you “welcome” the recommendations and “accept the broad thrust”. That, as the convener mentioned, does not sound entirely like acceptance of the recommendations. I would like you to be specific as to which of the comments, phrases, criticisms, recommendations or summaries in the Audit Scotland report you do not agree with, and why.

09:30  

Public Audit Committee

National Strategy for Economic Transformation

Meeting date: 9 May 2024

Jamie Greene

That is all good work and I think it is to be commended. You cannot detract from positives in that respect.

Our point of view is that we are reflecting on the Auditor General’s commentary. I will come to some of the specifics. Two things have jumped out that were flagged by the Auditor General and which seem to have come to pass. One is the clear inability to monitor progress through specific targets and the other is the lack of political leadership.

In the first 20 minutes of the meeting we have heard that there is clearly a lack of political leadership. You are the accountable officer—you are not accountable for ministers and what they do—but we certainly have not seen political leadership in this respect in the last two years.

As for monitoring progress—you mentioned some successes—it is very hard to measure success if you do not know what you are measuring against. Why are there no clear, specific economic output metrics or targets that NSET is working towards? Could you enlighten me, for example, on how many jobs have been created through the strategy? How has gross domestic product improved? How has productivity improved? How many new start-ups are there and how much economic growth has occurred as a result of the strategy? If we do not know that, it is very difficult to say whether you have been successful or not.

Public Audit Committee

National Strategy for Economic Transformation

Meeting date: 9 May 2024

Jamie Greene

Good morning, gentlemen. Let us go back to where we started. If we look at page 11 of the Auditor General’s report, paragraph 17, the opening line states that

“The Director General for Economy is the accountable officer for delivery of the NSET.”

I appreciate that your brief opening statement claimed that progress has been made, but you are yet to convince me. As the accountable officer in charge of the delivery of NSET, in what way have you made progress?

Public Audit Committee

National Strategy for Economic Transformation

Meeting date: 9 May 2024

Jamie Greene

Before we come on to targets and metrics, because they are important and it is an area of questioning that we do want to go into, at what point did you, in charge of the strategy, not flag with either the First Minister or someone senior in Government to say, “Guys, you have to sit around the table and have a meeting”? How can two years pass and colleagues who sit next to each other in the parliamentary chamber not sit next to each other in a civil service room somewhere and ask what progress is being made on the strategy? Is it just that they had meetings, but you were not party to them? Did you not flag to them that this was important? Were you not chasing them for meetings? At what point did you say, “This is not working.”?

Public Audit Committee

National Strategy for Economic Transformation

Meeting date: 9 May 2024

Jamie Greene

Page 10 has is a nice visual version. In the middle we have dotted lines between the NSET delivery board and the economic leadership group, which we know has been a failure. However, below that, there is the relationship between the NSET portfolio board, the programmes and the economic strategy unit, then with the Scottish Cabinet and corporate governance within various directorates-general. The bit in the middle, in the dotted square, says:

“No formal connection set out in NSET Accountability Framework.”

That is the missing link—the key missing link—but you are saying that it is not.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 2 May 2024

Jamie Greene

Can you indicate how much?