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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 19 April 2025
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Displaying 1492 contributions

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Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2025-26

Meeting date: 18 December 2024

Jamie Greene

Sorry to interrupt, but when you answer, I would really like to hear why you have chosen not to go down the fee increase route.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2025-26

Meeting date: 18 December 2024

Jamie Greene

Good morning. You will be relieved to hear that I will ask my questions in two tranches and I will come back in later with the second tranche.

The first area that I will cover is basically about people. At the end of the day, audit work is about people, as much as we talk about automation and software. Let us look at some of your numbers. On page 12 of your budget proposal, you summarise the position on costs and you propose that your people costs will be £25.8 million for 2025-26. To give me an idea of how you perform against budget expectations, can you let me know what the result of last year’s budget is likely to be for people costs? What I am looking for is what you thought you would spend on people in 2024-25 versus what you expect to spend, just to give me an idea of how on track you are with the budget.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2025-26

Meeting date: 18 December 2024

Jamie Greene

When was the £24.6 million adjusted? How does it match up with what you forecast at the beginning of the financial year that you would spend on people?

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2025-26

Meeting date: 18 December 2024

Jamie Greene

In your opening statement, Auditor General, you said that you audit 300 public bodies. Half a million pounds spread across hundreds of bodies would not be a huge cost increase for them, would it? Is that not a fairer approach? Ultimately, it is a pass-on cost. Again, there is a slight domino effect to all of this, and we do not really know where all those things will land in the next couple of months. However, it is not as if you are turning up at a public authority and asking for hundreds of thousands of pounds per authority, for example.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2025-26

Meeting date: 18 December 2024

Jamie Greene

I guess that it is important not to look at the project through the prism of a single-year ask. Even though we are talking about just the first year of that three-year spend and the money is being spread out, you are essentially asking for sign-off of the whole project. We have spoken a lot about how much the project will cost and how much you need to do it, but we have not heard a huge amount about what comes out the other end. What are the savings involved? We probably do not have time to go into all that today, so I will park that there.

I would like to see a breakdown of the overall cost, particularly the £670,000 for this year, to understand the terminology of “resource” versus “capital” and so on. In providing that, you could perhaps paint a rosier picture of why spending £2 million on modernisation will save money down the line.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2025-26

Meeting date: 18 December 2024

Jamie Greene

I had been saving up this question for when we came on to the fees issue, but I note that a third of your auditing is undertaken by external firms. I appreciate that you have a multiyear deal with them and that you are obliged to increase their fees to you—by 4 per cent this year, if I am not mistaken.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2025-26

Meeting date: 18 December 2024

Jamie Greene

That is interesting, bearing in mind what we are looking at for next year and your asks there. I presume that the increase includes year 2 of the pay deal that was agreed, which involves an increase of 3.8 per cent. However, does it include or exclude the national insurance contribution increases? I presume that they were not factored into your initial projections for 2025-26.

11:45  

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2025-26

Meeting date: 18 December 2024

Jamie Greene

You have come to the table asking for a 10 per cent increase overall, which is substantial. I am trying to break it down into the constituent parts to make it easier to scrutinise. A big chunk of that is the national insurance contribution. I am trying to find out why Audit Scotland felt that this was the mechanism to try to recuperate that money.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2025-26

Meeting date: 18 December 2024

Jamie Greene

Something else that struck me about that table on page 12 is the staff projections. Please do not take this in any way as a criticism, but it jumped out at me. For the years 2024-25, 2025-26, 2026-27 and 2027-28, you have projected pretty much the same number of staff. It is very unusual in an organisation to have such certainty, year on year. In addition—maybe this is a question for the board—does having the same numbers of people scream of efficiency and productivity improvements? Do you suspect that the volume of work will be the same? Will you need more people to do more work, because of the change in working hours? I am trying to get my head around this, because it strikes me as such an unusual forecast in a big organisation.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2025-26

Meeting date: 18 December 2024

Jamie Greene

In essence, you are saying that your current cost estimate for the modernisation project is about £2.2 million—that is a back of a fag packet analysis—and you are splitting that over three financial years, with the first tranche being an ask of £672,000 for next year and an expectation of £1.5 million over the following two years’ budgets. Is that correct?