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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 18 February 2026
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Displaying 2010 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of Historic Environment Scotland”

Meeting date: 4 February 2026

Jamie Greene

Good morning to the witnesses. I will carry on the same line of questioning. The Auditor General gave evidence to the committee just a few weeks ago; I presume that you followed that session closely in preparation for today. The Auditor General said in that meeting:

“when it became clear that the accountable officer was going to be absent for more than a month, the Scottish Government ought to have appointed a substitute”.

He also said:

“We have seen a lack of clarity in why the Scottish Government chose not to appoint an accountable officer”.—[Official Report, Public Audit Committee, 14 January 2026; c 27, 9]

Ms Riach, do you agree with that conclusion that the Auditor General gave us?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of Historic Environment Scotland”

Meeting date: 4 February 2026

Jamie Greene

I cannot get my head around the fact that an organisation as big and well known in Scotland as this, with such a high-profile role as a public body, could not find a single person in the whole organisation who could step up to the mark for a few months. How is that possible? Did no one want to do it? Was nobody suitably qualified? Were there relationship issues between senior executives and the board, or did you have issues with the board itself?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of Historic Environment Scotland”

Meeting date: 4 February 2026

Jamie Greene

It did not need to be a permanent finance director who stepped up to the mark. My question is whether there was a lack of willingness to do the role or a lack of competence.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of Historic Environment Scotland”

Meeting date: 4 February 2026

Jamie Greene

Goodness. I appreciate that, if you do not know, you do not know—it is perfectly fine to be honest with us.

Reverting back to the Scottish Government, then, I have to say that I find it difficult to imagine how you can come to the committee and say, “Oh, I don’t know why they didn't proceed.” Did you ask?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of Historic Environment Scotland”

Meeting date: 4 February 2026

Jamie Greene

Other members will go into those issues in more detail during the session, but, as the convener has alluded to, it seems that, according to the timeline of events, someone new was brought into the organisation, did a valid piece of work to uncover challenges with governance procedures and practices and with leadership and, in doing so, unearthed what were clearly unacceptable behaviours and practices. The board were clearly unhappy with that, as were other senior members of staff, and the individual was then off sick.

I do hope that you are okay now, Ms Brown, and I hope that you are being properly supported by the organisation and the board.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of Historic Environment Scotland”

Meeting date: 4 February 2026

Jamie Greene

I will take that as a diplomatic answer, and I will not push it any further for now.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”, and “Financial sustainability and taxes”

Meeting date: 4 February 2026

Jamie Greene

Would it not help if the Scottish Government gave the yard some contracts?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”, and “Financial sustainability and taxes”

Meeting date: 4 February 2026

Jamie Greene

—which it does. The Teckal issue has been around since I sat in the Rural Economy and Connectivity Committee eight years ago, so it is not a new issue, nor was it insurmountable at the time, yet the yard has been overlooked on numerous occasions for contracts. I do not understand how it has taken a decade to get to the bottom of this.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”, and “Financial sustainability and taxes”

Meeting date: 4 February 2026

Jamie Greene

How many public sector jobs is the Government likely to cut in the next three years to meet the reform objectives? Is there a target?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”, and “Financial sustainability and taxes”

Meeting date: 4 February 2026

Jamie Greene

How many people work in the Scottish civil service?