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Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 February 2025
Jamie Greene
Well, the time is now. I am asking whether that is the current intention.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 February 2025
Jamie Greene
That is great. My final question is on the finances that were mentioned earlier. I am looking for reassurance that funding for any cost overruns that the yard identifies as arising in the next couple of weeks or months will be met through additional funds provided by the Scottish Government. None of that should come from the money that has been put aside for capital investment to improve and upgrade the yard or from any other part of its existing budget.
I mention that because it is exactly what happened last time. The Scottish Government gave the yard money, by way of loans, for the stated purpose of improving its infrastructure. We all know that that money got soaked up in the Glen Sannox cost overruns—that was the reality of the matter—and I am looking for comfort that that will not be the case again.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 February 2025
Jamie Greene
Let us get this right. The budget, if it is agreed to, will allocate around £47 million to the yard, of which £37 million will be used to complete the Glen Rosa, and there is £14 million of capital money. Also, £9 million of the capital money will be allocated to the Glen Rosa. Is that correct?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 February 2025
Jamie Greene
Perhaps you can write to us and outline that. We asked Audit Scotland about that previously, and there was a lot of confusion over the numbers.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 February 2025
Jamie Greene
Let us segue nicely to the Scottish Government. Would that request be granted?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 February 2025
Jamie Greene
I am sure that Mr McMillan is more than capable of agreeing with many of those points, and I am sure that we will hear some of them from him. As someone who lives in Greenock, I agree with many of the points that I am sure that he is about to make, but that is not the point of this committee, and it is not the point of the Auditor General’s work. That specific work, rightly, involves holding to account senior civil servants, ministers and people who run enterprises that are owned by the public, funded by the public and paid for with taxpayers’ money. We are entirely doing our duty in that respect.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 February 2025
Jamie Greene
There is a track record of your having said to ministers that something is not value for money for public investment.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 February 2025
Jamie Greene
In your opening statement, you said that the three pillars of being a good sponsor of a public asset such as Ferguson’s are good governance, transparency and value for money. Which of those is demonstrated in the conversation that we have had today? We have heard numerous examples of poor governance and there has been a lack of transparency, with basic questions that cannot be answered. Certainly, value for money is out the window. The ferries were supposed to cost £97 million for the two, but we are now nudging towards £400 million of public money. Is that a complete failure on your part?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 February 2025
Jamie Greene
Thank you for putting your faith in their importance, convener.
Gentlemen, I appreciate that the clock is ticking. I recently jumped on the bandwagon of looking into my ancestry, and, when I got the certificates through, I discovered who my grandfather was. It said on the certificate that he was a welder in a Greenock shipyard, which was a surprise to me, because my granny never told me that. It then transpired that his father was a welder in a Greenock shipyard as well, so you could say that it runs in my blood. How on earth I am sitting here in a suit, talking about their finances, is another matter.
You are right, Mr Petticrew, that everyone wants to see the yard succeed. The question that we face—this goes back to the Auditor General’s report—is about the fact that Audit Scotland has analysed the numbers and the current situation and has flagged some very serious risks around the business as a going concern. None of us wants to talk in those terms or in that language, but we have to reflect on what the Auditor General said. Therefore, I am looking for some comfort that, on the basis of the strategy and throughout the business, including at board level—as you say, it goes from the bottom up, from the apprentices in the yard right through to those in the Scottish Government who are in charge of the strategic vision for the business as a publicly owned asset—there is a real joined-up approach to creating a sensible and realistic plan for a future for the yard. Otherwise, all the warnings in the Auditor General’s report would sadly come to pass. Fill me with some confidence that that is not the case.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 February 2025
Jamie Greene
That is a nice segue into colleagues’ questions about the future of the yard.