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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 19 February 2026
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Displaying 2021 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of Historic Environment Scotland”

Meeting date: 14 January 2026

Jamie Greene

Those are questions that we might ask the Government.

Again, I apologise for quoting directly from the Official Report of the CEEAC Committee meeting, but it is probably easier if I do so. Mr Hogg said that, at one point,

“the board determined that it wished to proceed to appoint an acting chief executive”

and that he

“met the candidate and interviewed them in respect of their suitability”

and took the view

“that the individual was appointable as the accountable officer”,

and he

“told the chair and the board that.”

The next line is interesting. Mr Hogg then says:

“The board subsequently decided not to proceed with that appointment”.—[Official Report, Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee, 6 November 2025; c 8.]

It would seem to be an unusual state of affairs for a recommendation about the appointment of a senior chief executive that has been made by a senior director general of a Government department to be refused by the board. At this point, it comes down to a question of who is in charge. What would be the normal procedure or practice in such a scenario, where there is a conflict of views?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of Historic Environment Scotland”

Meeting date: 14 January 2026

Jamie Greene

Thank you; that is noted.

My final question is a technical clarification. In the CEEAC Committee meeting of 6 November last year, there was a conversation about HES’s scheme of delegation to directors. I presume that that was an interim arrangement so that decisions could be made in the absence of senior leadership or executives. It is unclear to this committee whether that scheme of delegation would take precedent over the requirements of the SPFM.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Cairngorm Funicular Railway

Meeting date: 14 January 2026

Jamie Greene

With respect, we had an extraordinary amount of weather in the past couple of weeks. The benefit is that it brings great conditions for the mountain ranges; however, it presents issues around access across all the skiing areas. To play devil’s advocate, is that not simply par for the course for a mountain ski resort?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Cairngorm Funicular Railway

Meeting date: 14 January 2026

Jamie Greene

Let me just summarise that, so that we can be clear about what you are saying to us. It is not just the initial design of the structure that is at fault; in addition, the design of the repairs is partially at fault.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Cairngorm Funicular Railway

Meeting date: 14 January 2026

Jamie Greene

Thank you very much. That was all really interesting stuff, and we might come back to some of it before the end of the session. For now, however, I will ask Mr Beattie to put some questions to you.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 14 January 2026

Jamie Greene

Good morning, and welcome to the second meeting of the Public Audit Committee in 2026. We have received apologies from our convener, Richard Leonard, so I will deputise in his absence.

Agenda item 1 is to decide whether to take agenda items 4, 5, 6 and 7 in private. Do members agree to do so?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of Historic Environment Scotland”

Meeting date: 14 January 2026

Jamie Greene

Many thanks, Auditor General. We have a wide range of questions, so we will get straight into them.

I will kick off—perhaps I am abusing my new position of power. I am quite intrigued by your opening comments. You used a number of phrases and a lot of terminology that, unfortunately, the committee has heard before in section 22 reports, on governance instability and unacceptable levels of governance in a public body. Based on your understanding, what is the root cause of this period of instability at Historic Environment Scotland? How did it get itself into such a situation at the time of your audit?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of Historic Environment Scotland”

Meeting date: 14 January 2026

Jamie Greene

Thank you very much for that further update. Members have questions on many of the areas that you have identified in your report, so we will come back to you on them.

Auditor General, to go back to your summation of how HES got itself into this mess in the first place, do you understand it to be twofold in nature? There are internal problems with staff turnover and leadership at the very top of the organisation but, in parallel, there is a lack of oversight from the Scottish Government, given that HES is a public body. To put that in context, Historic Environment Scotland, which employs more than 1,600 members of permanent staff and has a turnover of £140 million in just one year, is also in receipt of significant amounts of public money by way of grant funding—around £70 million in the year that the auditors identified.

The importance of the role of the body and what it does on a day-to-day basis has surely been somewhat compromised by the instability and lack of leadership. Perhaps that has led to some issues of trust in the body from the public and those it assists on a day-to-day basis.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of Historic Environment Scotland”

Meeting date: 14 January 2026

Jamie Greene

You may not know the answer, but is Audit Scotland aware of any other public bodies that are currently in amber or red on the RAG status list, in terms of their sponsorship?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of Historic Environment Scotland”

Meeting date: 14 January 2026

Jamie Greene

Those are questions that we might rightly wish to ask of the Scottish Government in response to your comments. I will bring in a colleague in a second. Has Audit Scotland had any conversations with the chair or any members of the board of the agency? Presumably, the role of the board is to provide oversight of the governance arrangements, but it sounds as though there was a distinct lack of that.