The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 2120 contributions
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 2 May 2024
Jamie Greene
Here is what I do not understand. In your opening statement, you said that we are sending fewer people to prison each year, but the prison population is rising—it is at its highest level in nearly five years.
The Parliament has made a number of legislative changes, some of which have been mentioned, such as the Management of Offenders (Scotland) Act 2019, and there is the presumption against short-term sentences, the changes in sentencing guidelines for under-25s and a massive shift in alternatives to custody. Whatever your views on those policies—for or against—some of which were rather controversial, we have made such changes already, and yet the prison population is going up.
Are the courts simply not following the guidelines and are sending too many people to prison, or does the nature and profile of those prisoners mean that we are sending the right number of people to prison, but the Scottish Government has simply not built the capacity to deal with that?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 2 May 2024
Jamie Greene
Or, potentially, those other countries have less serious organised crime or sexual offences.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 2 May 2024
Jamie Greene
Both of which are delayed, of course.
I will wrap up my line of questioning here. Is that not part of the issue? We would not be hitting this crunch point, people would not be living in inhumane conditions, you would not be threatened with litigation, and we would not be sitting on the precipice of mass riots in our prisons if you had built the prison capacity in the first place. HMP Greenock was described by HMIP as needing to be “bulldozed”. Barlinnie was described as being at risk of “catastrophic failure”. The list goes on and on. At what point over the past decade did the Government realise that it should have built capacity and replaced those prisons way before we hit this crunch point?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 2 May 2024
Jamie Greene
My final question may be more fundamental. What is the point of prison? Is it simply to lock people up and keep them away from the wider populace or is it to make sure that, if and when they come out of prison, they do not reoffend and they come out better people than when they went in?
I am concerned by what we have heard this morning and over the past couple of months and years. We are simply not rehabilitating people in prison. We are chucking them in there, locking them up for 23-plus hours a day, potentially breaching their human rights and then, at the end of their sentence, putting them back into society and expecting them not to reoffend. We are, clearly, failing in this.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 2 May 2024
Jamie Greene
My question is obvious—what is the point of fining GEOAmey if you simply hand the money back?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 2 May 2024
Jamie Greene
You can see how it looks, though. We are talking about public money and a company that paid over £1 million in dividends to shareholders. It has a stench of unfairness about it.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 2 May 2024
Jamie Greene
In the scenario in which it walked away from the contract because it was making a loss, you would be left in quite a precarious position—how on earth would you manage prisoner transportation?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 2 May 2024
Jamie Greene
Those were her words.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 2 May 2024
Jamie Greene
Do you feel that you are not able to properly rehabilitate people?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 2 May 2024
Jamie Greene
Have there been further fines since then?