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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 12 July 2025
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Displaying 775 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

I am working closely on the amendments with Opposition parties and stakeholders with an interest. On Anne’s law, for example, I am very proud of the amendments that we lodged at stage 2. We worked closely on those with care home relatives Scotland, whose input I am very grateful for, and we think that they delivered a substantial improvement. Care home relatives Scotland has said that it wants further refinements that would ensure that the balance of power is appropriate between care homes and relatives. We are also working with Opposition parties to reach agreement on such amendments.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

No, I do not. I will bring in John Paul Liddle to speak more about the value of co-design. The member is oversimplifying the stakeholders’ feelings about the bill. As I have said, the people who access social care particularly loved the first version of the bill. They thought that it was the most true to Feeley’s recommendations. However, local authorities and the unions were very strongly against it.

The stakeholders who access social care were less comfortable with the shared accountability agreement. They were concerned about the power resting with local authorities, the NHS and the Government. They went with it as something that was workable, but it was not necessarily their first choice. Then, without coming back to the table to discuss it with the Government, the local authorities made the decision to walk away from the shared accountability agreement. Local authorities and unions were very strongly against the shared accountability agreement that they had jointly signed up to.

In the co-design work with individuals who access social care, those people said very strongly that they would have liked the first version of the bill. So, I think that you are misunderstanding the level of complexity—there is no one view from stakeholders on what they want to see in improvements to social care. There is no single view; there are a lot of strong, powerfully expressed different views. My challenge is to bring everyone with me as we make improvements to social care in Scotland.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

Do you mean the number of people simply to deliver the breaks for carers? Is that what you are specifically discussing?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

I do not think that we have specific numbers.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

Yes, and its name has been changed to the Care Reform (Scotland) Bill to reflect that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

It is still the Government’s intention to deliver a national care service, and there will be national aspects to how we deliver social care. We have created an advisory board that will have some national oversight functions. We are still aiming for a national care service, but the bill will not deliver it—you are correct.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

No, it is not reasonable, and that is why we have been in front of the committee quite so many times. With each substantial change to the bill, we have come back with financial information for you to scrutinise. I am keen for Parliament to do the job of scrutiny effectively.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

We have given you a range, which is the best estimate that we can give at this stage. We are expecting some stage 3 amendments on that provision, and it depends on them.

You will forgive me, convener, but I am trying really hard to be as open as possible with the committee. I have said since my first day in this job that I will try to ensure that you are well informed and are able to scrutinise the bill. However, it is quite unusual for a bill going through the Scottish Parliament to experience such financial scrutiny between stages 2 and 3. Part of the reason for the range in those figures is that we expect some refinement at stage 3 that will narrow the cost.

Do you want to say more on that, John Paul?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

As John Paul has said, the costs that we have provided are at the top end of what we predict, based on what we have heard from our co-design work and engagement with people who access social care. We are keen to work with small-scale local providers, because they know their communities best and can often link better to other local supports and networks. We are looking at this as a possible expansion of capacity over time and are pretty keen to ensure that we deliver a sustainable increase in capacity by working with those small local providers.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

A member of the public with an interest in finances and who is used to looking at financial memorandums would understand it perfectly well.