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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 25 December 2024
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Displaying 654 contributions

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Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 November 2023

Maree Todd

Convener, could I talk a little bit more about the safety and safeguards that are in place?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 November 2023

Maree Todd

There is a right to appeal built in. As I said in my opening statement, that is absolutely crucial. The treatment interventions for children and young people who require a certain level of security are not brief: the average length of stay at the NSAIS is about 12 to 18 months. The appeal process is rigorous and thorough, and we consider the timeframes suggested within the current regulations to be appropriate and proportionate.

As for the care and treatment that is provided, each individual who is detained will be managed under the care programme approach, which is a legal framework. There will be regular review, with accountability for the responsible medical officers. There are safeguards built in. There are appeal processes at certain points during the care planning journey, which I think is crucial to upholding children’s rights.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 November 2023

Maree Todd

I will let Ruth Christie give a fuller answer, but, as I said previously, we have not done a full CRWIA. We have asked many of the questions as we have gone along and we have been satisfied that we are child rights compliant, but we have not done a full CRWIA.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 November 2023

Maree Todd

As mentioned in an answer to a previous question, access to a telephone to maintain contact with family and friends is a pretty crucial matter for any patient in hospital, and the Foxgrove team will ensure that young patients can safely use telephones within the unit. Procedures will be developed—again, those will be operational procedures developed by NHS Ayrshire and Arran—around access to mobile phones for all young patients in the unit and for children and young people as part of their individual care plan.

Under separate regulations, the use of telephones can be restricted if the RMO determines that a telephone call made to or by the person detained might cause distress to the person detained or to any other person who is not on the staff of the hospital, or significant risk to health, safety or welfare of the person detained for the safety of others. It is not a measure that is used lightly or in a blanket way. It is used very proportionately where there are specific care needs that need to be met.

11:15  

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 November 2023

Maree Todd

I am confident that I have enough oversight to be certain that NHS Ayrshire and Arran is well prepared for the opening of the hospital, and I am confident that it is able to identify the right staff mix and that any training needs can be met through internal training, courses that are available through NES and informal networking.

I am confident that I have enough oversight that the building will be successful in opening. It has been many years in planning, and for many years it has been identified as a need for Scotland. Generally, aside from some construction constraints, we are motoring towards opening it healthily.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 November 2023

Maree Todd

I am keen to proceed with the regulations. I am more than happy to conduct a CRWIA and to keep the committee informed of the outcome of that. I am more than happy to take on board Ms Harper’s suggestion of getting more operational detail from NHS Ayrshire and Arran but, fundamentally, the regulations would not change. Much of what members seek assurance on is operational detail, on which I can, by liaising with NHS Ayrshire and Arran, reassure them. Those concerns would not fundamentally change the legislation, so I am happy to proceed.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 November 2023

Maree Todd

That is absolutely correct. The application of the safety and security measurements are to help to protect the safety of children and young people who require to be detained in Foxgrove in conditions of medium security. The measures will be applied only when necessary and will be proportionate to the potential risk.

As we said in a number of previous answers, the service will absolutely be UNCRC compliant. The child will be at the centre and the child’s wellbeing will be core to all the facility’s work. Family links will be maintained and all those important pieces will be in place. It will be a child-centred service first, as well as being a medium-secure service.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 November 2023

Maree Todd

I am very confident that it will be fully and appropriately staffed. As I said, the service has been many years in development and we recognise that particular care needs to be taken of children and young people who find themselves in that situation.

It is a specialist in-patient service that we have not had previously, but we have expertise in forensic CAMHS in Scotland—for example, we have Dr Blower. We can look to examples from the secure care estate and at how the estate operates in England to learn what might be required in terms of training and operational procedures for the unit to work well.

We operate CAMHS in a way that has the child or young person at the centre of their care. The care plan is developed in line with GIRFEC, and trauma-informed practice is an important part of that jigsaw. Our aim is that our entire public services workforce will be trauma informed. For CAMHS, it is absolutely crucial that staff are trauma informed and that that training is available to them. Most of them will already be trauma-informed practitioners.

I do not know whether Dr Blower wants to say more about the workforce.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 November 2023

Maree Todd

Yes, we do think that it was sufficient. Although there were only nine responses received, they were from key bodies that were charged with upholding the human rights of children in Scotland.

Subsequent to receiving the responses to the consultation, my officials met each of the respondents to ensure that we captured any concerns that they had about the legislation. Therefore, I think that, in addition to the formal consultation, there has been a good level of engagement with people who are charged with scrutinising the process in this situation.

10:45  

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 November 2023

Maree Todd

They have been built in as safety and security measures that seek to protect rights while also protecting safety. There are conditions for how measures can be used. There are record-keeping requirements and, importantly, there is oversight and scrutiny by the Mental Welfare Commission for Scotland. All of those provisions act as safeguards for the rights of children and young people who might be detained in Foxgrove, while enabling the necessary measures to be taken to ensure that they are safe.