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I am grateful for that response. Does Jeremy Lawson wish to come in?

I understand. Thank you very much. Back to you, convener.

I shall be brief. Should SNIB be investing in listed managed funds? Tracy Black mentioned the city deals in her opening responses. As a partnership and funding model, will they deliver low carbon infrastructure?

I was not going to speak but, having listened to the minister’s evidence sessions today and previously, I feel compelled to do so.

My friend Monica Lennon spoke rather well just now, and she made some really important points.

The regulations have been half a decade in gestation, and we are now being told that they will be delayed again. The minister blames several extraneous factors. That is rather difficult to square with the reality. Our friends elsewhere are striding on with schemes that are constructed differently and which, evidence suggests, might be effective and future proofed. That relates to my earlier question.

The minister has rather struggled to answer several direct questions from across the political spectrum, and the answers that have been given have lacked detail. As Monica Lennon rightly said, we are all, across the parties, keen to see a workable, effective and successful scheme as soon as possible. The minister has talked positively about what a scheme can achieve and its benefits, but I am very concerned that its detail, depth and finances remain opaque.

This is a debate. I respectfully request that, in closing, the minister gives clear details of commitments and figures on the funds and the likely cost to the public purse, which I asked about, in order to allay my and possibly others’ significant concerns about what is proposed.

It does, up to a point.

I have one more question, minister. As you will be well aware, other jurisdictions are trialling a digital DRS system, which—certainly according to the research that I have done—would be cheaper, have a lower carbon footprint and be easier for people to get involved with. That begs a question: has the Scottish Government conducted, or will it conduct, a business case and feasibility study for a digital DRS? Will businesses that have set up your DRS be compensated—and if so, by whom—for what would presumably be an obsolete outlay if a digital DRS is ultimately introduced in Scotland?

As requested, I will cut to the chase, minister. How much will setting up the scheme cost, and will local authorities be compensated for the potential revenue and job losses that some have theorised will happen?

I will ask one question because of time. I will direct it to you, Tim Lord, and then, if Jeremy Lawson and Sandy Begbie want to add to your answer, they can indicate that in the chat box.

The deputy convener’s question about investing was a good one, and the answer that you gave about pensions and public influence is important. You said that one of the roles of pension funds is genuine emissions reduction, and, in your answer to Mark Ruskell’s question, you talked about the energy market.

One of the ways to achieve emissions reduction is to increase our sourcing of local rather than imported oil and gas, which will also help to reduce energy costs to the consumer and increase our energy security. Companies such as BP and Shell are investing a great deal in EV charging while other oil and gas companies are investing in wind power. How do you decide what investment decisions are green and, thus, which companies or projects it is appropriate to invest in or divest from? How much are those decisions influenced by the attitude of Governments and the public towards, and their understanding of, the domestic oil and gas industry, for example?

I hand back to you, convener.

Thank you. That is really interesting. Does Barry McCulloch have any thoughts on that?

My second question is for Tracy Black first; Barry McCulloch can come in afterwards if he has any further remarks. Tracy, you talked about household products and the cost of doing things differently. You might have heard that we had a previous evidence session on the deposit return scheme and how important it could be for our net zero journey. One of the concerns that the committee heard about was DRS systems differing between Scotland and the rest of the UK. What does business think about those differing approaches and do you share those concerns?