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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 22 April 2025
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Displaying 1100 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny and the Scottish Attainment Challenge

Meeting date: 27 September 2023

Liam Kerr

Just to be clear, will there be a negative consequence for councils if teacher numbers do not increase?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny and the Scottish Attainment Challenge

Meeting date: 27 September 2023

Liam Kerr

On that exact point, some would argue that the focus on teacher numbers is a very blunt instrument. To focus on the numbers, the committee heard last week that there are 300 fewer maths teachers and 300 fewer English teachers than there were in 2008. That masks the reality of what is happening on the ground. What are you doing to recognise that? Is there a more sophisticated way than the raw numbers to approach that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny and the Scottish Attainment Challenge

Meeting date: 27 September 2023

Liam Kerr

I presume, though, that if, as you have said, it was designed for strategic change, that change, which was clearly felt to be necessary, cannot go ahead if the resource is not there.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny and the Scottish Attainment Challenge

Meeting date: 27 September 2023

Liam Kerr

Indeed. Last December, £46 million of resource funding was promised to colleges and universities, but the money was withdrawn to fund other aspects of the education portfolio. Is there any intention to bring that £46 million back? In any event, what will happen to the college and university projects that it was intended to resource?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny and the Scottish Attainment Challenge

Meeting date: 27 September 2023

Liam Kerr

I understand. I will just press that point. Cabinet secretary, more philosophically, do you think that eligibility for free school meals is the best measure on which to decide levels of need in a school and area? Perhaps there is a better way that you might move to.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny and the Scottish Attainment Challenge

Meeting date: 27 September 2023

Liam Kerr

I am very grateful.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny and the Scottish Attainment Challenge

Meeting date: 27 September 2023

Liam Kerr

On a related point, the programme for government mentions the

“development of a new funding model for post-school education provision”,

which will include improving parity of financial support for flexible and part-time study. What progress has been made on that? What timescales are you working to, and what is the impact on the budget?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny and the Scottish Attainment Challenge

Meeting date: 27 September 2023

Liam Kerr

I understand your answer, but I wonder whether you can clarify something. Given that the programme for government is very recent, one would have thought that, before such an announcement was made, some budgetary provision would have been made—a ballpark figure, at least. Was that not done?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny and the Scottish Attainment Challenge

Meeting date: 27 September 2023

Liam Kerr

That is the question. If you say to councils, “You have to increase your teacher numbers,” and then, for whatever reason, they are unable to do so or do not do so, will consequences arise?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny and the Scottish Attainment Challenge

Meeting date: 27 September 2023

Liam Kerr

Respectfully, I say that I am not sure that that answered my question, which was about how a £15 million shortfall does not follow through and have an impact.

By all means, we can come back to that, but I will stick with the topic of PEF. It is allocated at school level, based on the number of children who it is estimated take free school meals. Concerns have been raised with me about what will happen when universal free school meals are brought in. How will PEF be calculated then?