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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 17 September 2025
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Displaying 1220 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 6 November 2024

Liam Kerr

I think that people will understand that your staff and the whole system will be doing its absolute best, given that hard stop in November 2025. For the benefit of those who are following this session, will you make it clear to them what the implications are if the backlog is not addressed in time and the time bar reverts in November 2025? I have certainly had it expressed to me that in some of the most serious cases—because I understand that solemn cases will be particularly impacted—it is possible that some accused would not be held or, indeed, tried. Is there a risk that some individuals accused of the most serious crimes that we heard about earlier—murder, rape—could walk free?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 6 November 2024

Liam Kerr

My question follows on very well from Fulton MacGregor’s question. Malcolm Graham talked earlier about capacity planning, and he has just talked about collaboration throughout the system and, especially, the criticality of the defence. There is huge concern about legal aid levels, and there is evidence that the result is that criminal defence is struggling, with those whom we saw last week—Aamer Anwar & Co—exiting the legal aid area. Of course, we know that people are perhaps less keen to enter the profession due to the conditions and pay. Where will that situation end up, if we take the holistic view of the system that you are putting forward? What needs to happen if we are not to end up in that place?

Criminal Justice Committee

Interests

Meeting date: 30 October 2024

Liam Kerr

Good morning, convener. I have an interest to declare, which I shall specifically flag up at each session where it is relevant, because it will not always be relevant. I remind the committee that I am a practising solicitor and that I hold practising certificates with the Law Society of England and Wales and with the Law Society of Scotland.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 30 October 2024

Liam Kerr

I would like to hear Martyn Evans’s thoughts on a matter that I put to the chief constable earlier. You will have seen that, in its written submission, Police Scotland said:

“The financial implications of current legislation is significantly higher than we are able to absorb within our BAU activity.”

Do you know whether those financial implications were adequately predicted in the financial memoranda at the time, or did the Parliament pass legislation without fully appreciating, or perhaps understanding, the financial implications of the legislation on Police Scotland?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 30 October 2024

Liam Kerr

I am grateful, convener. Good morning.

On a similar note, you heard me ask earlier about the two scenarios that have been modelled: the flat cash settlement that could result in 1,300 fewer officers, and the 3 per cent cash reduction, which the Police Scotland submission suggests could take the number of officers below 15,000. How inevitable is that outcome? For example, if I see flat cash in the budget, will I then see 1,300 fewer officers by March 2026?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 30 October 2024

Liam Kerr

I am very grateful to you all.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 30 October 2024

Liam Kerr

That is very helpful—thank you.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 30 October 2024

Liam Kerr

Did Parliament get that right?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 30 October 2024

Liam Kerr

I am very grateful for that answer.

I will direct my final question to DCC Connors—but you can of course come in, chief constable, if you wish.

DCC Connors, last year the Scottish Police Federation told the committee that any cuts to numbers would “have consequences” and that public safety could be “compromised.” The federation went on to say:

“The police service cannot cope with any further reduction of officer numbers”.

If numbers were to drop in certain situations—as your written submission suggests could happen—what impact would that have on the force’s ability to provide the services that it does?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 30 October 2024

Liam Kerr

I was very interested in the part of your submission in which you stated that the

“financial implications of current legislation is significantly higher than we are able to absorb within our BAU activity”—

that is, your business-as-usual activity. Many parliamentarians, especially those on the Finance and Public Administration Committee, have been increasingly concerned about that issue, so I was particularly interested in what you said.

Is the cost of that legislation broadly what was predicted in the financial memoranda to the relevant bills at the time? In any event, given that you have built the costs of meeting those demands into your budget ask, what will happen if the Scottish Government does not cover that?