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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 April 2025
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Displaying 1100 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Liam Kerr

I will reflect on that further, because I want to be clear. I appreciate what you said, and I will not press you for a figure. However, if the figure was £1 billion a decade ago, as per your submission, it might meaningfully be adjusted for inflation, at the very least, which might help the committee to arrive at an indicative figure from the Government.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Liam Kerr

I find that a very interesting point, which you have made several times.

You say that there is a consistent disparity between public funding and income. For completeness, when you talk about that being consistent, do you mean over a number of years?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Liam Kerr

I will ask a brief question on that exact point. Perhaps Ellie Gomersall and Mary Senior may wish to answer. There was a cut of, let us say, 1,200 places, and I recall that the expectation at the time, around January, was that that would save about £5 million, but a £28.5 million shortfall for the sector was being projected. The suggestion at the time seemed to be that there could be further cuts to places coming down the track. Does either of you recognise that as a risk, and are you concerned about that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Liam Kerr

I will follow up with a similar question and you might again be unable to answer the second part, for obvious reasons. In your submission, you set out some data that you have alluded to throughout the meeting. You say that the Scottish system costs the public purse either five times as much or 500 per cent more than it does in England, but that Scottish institutions receive less income than those in England. In your submission, you say that they receive 23 per cent less income; earlier today, you said 27 per cent less income.

If we assume that the Scottish Government is cognisant of those figures, what steps would you expect it to take to address that, and are you seeing any evidence that those steps are being taken?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Liam Kerr

I will stay on that theme, Dr Conlon. I wrote down some words that you said at the start. It might not be a precise quote, but I think that you said that there is a significant risk of a Scottish university shutting down. Later, you talked about the potential for an institution to fall over. Please help the committee to understand what leads you to say that. Is there any indication that the Scottish Government recognises that risk and is responding to it?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Liam Kerr

David Belsey, what is your view? Is that work being done?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Liam Kerr

Earlier, we brought up the Withers report. James Withers referred to colleges as

“a burning platform in relation to finance and sustainability”

and said that he feared that there might be

“a ... chaotic reorganisation ... based on the law of natural selection”.—[Official Report, Education, Children and Young People Committee, 15 November 2023; c 49.]

David Belsey, do you recognise that risk? If so, what can be done to manage it and is the Government taking that action?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Liam Kerr

Mark MacPherson, given what you have just heard and what you know about the sector, is there a risk of chaotic reorganisation? If so, what is being done to mitigate it?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Liam Kerr

On that point, the helpful submission that Mary Senior sent in states that the Scottish Government

“provides over £1billion ... to higher education annually”,

but

“a decade ago they were citing”

exactly

“the same ... figure”.

In your submission, you also suggest that the policy of free tuition

“needs to be properly funded”.

The committee is looking at the budget process. Are you able to guide us on what “properly funded” looks like, in terms of an indicative sum?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Liam Kerr

I understand.