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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 14 July 2025
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Displaying 1198 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 January 2025

Liam Kerr

You raise the point that you are a practising solicitor. As Ben Macpherson declared his interest earlier, I remind the committee that I am a practising solicitor, although I do not practise criminal law and have not done so for 20 years.

Paul Smith, let us stick with the issue of virtual attendance. The Edinburgh Bar Association tells us, in its submission, that it does not support virtual attendance at the custody court.

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 January 2025

Liam Kerr

You earlier set out some practical issues—for example, the cost. You said that it would need millions of pounds. You also highlighted concerns about the need for effective communication between the person who is held in custody and the defence lawyer. Would you elaborate on that for the committee? Are there specific amendments to the bill that the committee needs to consider to address those concerns?

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 January 2025

Liam Kerr

Out of interest, Stuart, on whom does the onus lie to make the changes to which you have just referred? Who could change the system?

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 January 2025

Liam Kerr

Good morning to the witnesses. Kate Wallace, you mentioned sections 2 and 7, but you did not mention section 6, which is about fiscal fines. In effect, section 6 makes permanent a temporary Covid measure that raised fiscal fines to a maximum of £500. Victim Support Scotland supported that in your submission. However, you may have heard Simon Brown saying in the earlier evidence session that fiscal fines could, in effect, decriminalise shoplifting, and Stuart Munro went on to say that a fiscal fine could lead to a suggestion that an offence is not taken seriously by victims and in general. What is your view on the principle of a fiscal fine, and do you have any concerns about permanently raising the limit to £500?

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 January 2025

Liam Kerr

You raise an interesting point.

Simon Brown, the SSBA submission is supportive of virtual attendance but says that you generally favour in-person attendance at trials, which is the default position. Are your concerns the same as those articulated by the Law Society, and is your general favouring of in-person attendance an observation or a suggestion that the bill should be amended?

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 January 2025

Liam Kerr

Simon Brown, I want to take you back to something that you said earlier, just to ensure that we air this point. You talked about the need for legal aid provision for solicitors when they are dealing with virtual attendance. We already know that, in a context in which there is a significant decline in such solicitors doing legal aid work, many will feel that the provision is less than ideal already. Can you help the committee to understand what legal aid is currently available, if it is available at all for virtual attendance, and what the issues are around legal aid in general?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police Investigations and Review Commissioner Annual Report 2023-24

Meeting date: 15 January 2025

Liam Kerr

That really will be interesting. However, as colleagues will probably want to ask about the strategic review, I will back down on that, if that is okay.

I have one final question. Your report is very good, and I enjoyed looking through it. However, there is no doubt that what you and your colleagues have just said is concerning, because the Parliament has to be very careful about how it spends money. I did not immediately see, from the report, the horizon scanning on, for example, the Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill. Why not? That is a genuine question, because it seems to me that any reader would be helped by that.

Is there anything else that we need to be aware of—on legislation, for example—that is not in the report and could impact on your finances?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police Investigations and Review Commissioner Annual Report 2023-24

Meeting date: 15 January 2025

Liam Kerr

I would like to press you on the costings. Page 16 of your report details the finances, which are considerable and have increased by £500,000 in the past year. Staffing costs, which are clearly required based on what you have just said, make up 84 per cent of your spend. Can you tell the committee more about that?

I hear what you say about the financial memorandum and the difficulties of accurately making projections, but MSPs will have to consider such issues. What is the financial impact of the bill on the PIRC? The Scottish Government has had difficulty in making accurate projections in financial memoranda, so have the extra costs been sufficiently accounted for to give you comfort, particularly given Phil Chapman’s comments about the changes to corroboration?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police Investigations and Review Commissioner Annual Report 2023-24

Meeting date: 15 January 2025

Liam Kerr

I understand and am grateful.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police Investigations and Review Commissioner Annual Report 2023-24

Meeting date: 15 January 2025

Liam Kerr

Good morning. Michelle Macleod, on exactly that point, one of the first points in the foreword to your report notes that your

“workload has increased substantially over the past decade.”

This afternoon, MSPs will consider the Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill, in which the PIRC features heavily and which will increase your responsibility. In order to help members with our deliberations, what impact do you project that the bill, if it is passed in its current form, will have on your already increased workload?

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