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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 25 December 2025
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Displaying 1326 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Liam Kerr

I will address my first question to Jim Smith, but if anyone else wants to come in, they can just catch my eye. The Prison Officers Association told us that it was clear that overcrowding in Scottish prisons is key. Given that prisoner numbers are higher now than they were before all the early release schemes, I presume that that is even more of an issue. Can you explain what impact overcrowding, and rising numbers of prisoners specifically, will have on levels of misuse and on the ability of staff and inmates to address issues of supply, demand and use?

Criminal Justice Committee

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Liam Kerr

Does the overcrowding perhaps facilitate that and make the supply easier or, indeed, the demand greater? Does it also have an effect on their use of drugs?

11:00  

Criminal Justice Committee

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Liam Kerr

Detective Chief Superintendent Higgins, you have heard Jim Smith and Gillian Walker mention drones. There are currently no-fly regulations around prisons in England and Wales, and the Prison Governors Association Scotland has called for similar legislation here. Do you take a view on whether that would be helpful and whether Scotland should go down that legislative route? If so, would that go some way towards addressing the issue?

Criminal Justice Committee

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Liam Kerr

That is very helpful. I am grateful to you all.

Criminal Justice Committee

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Liam Kerr

I am struggling to phrase my next question because I do not quite know whether I want to ask it. You said that the grilles have already been compromised. You probably noticed Mr Macpherson and I conferring on the obvious question, which is to ask how that happened, but I realise that you may not want to explain that in a public forum. I offer you the question, but you may decline to answer it.

Criminal Justice Committee

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Liam Kerr

I have a final question on a similar topic. You spoke in your opening remarks about vulnerable individuals—those are my words rather than yours—and said that they are almost coerced into using and trafficking substances in prisons. Can you expand on that? What can or should be done to tackle that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Liam Kerr

I understand.

Criminal Justice Committee

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Liam Kerr

I am very grateful. Jim Smith, do you have anything to add?

Criminal Justice Committee

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 3 September 2025

Liam Kerr

Good morning, panel members. I go first to Marianna Marquardt. I suspect that Haydn Pasi, based on something that she said earlier, will want to follow up on it.

The committee has heard evidence of a link between substance use in prisons and mental health challenges. Your response to the call for views raises the lack of mental health services and also suggests that there is a

“lack of integration between substance use and mental health services in prison.”

Can you expand on that for the committee? In particular, what impact does inadequate provision have on prisoners and their families?

Criminal Justice Committee

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 3 September 2025

Liam Kerr

I understand. Before I bring in Haydn Pasi, I will press you on something, Marianna. In your response to the call for views, you said

“that you can only have a drug worker or a mental health worker, not both.”

I found that quite interesting, and I think that the committee will as well. Will you explain how that operates in practice?