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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 12 April 2025
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Displaying 1100 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 11 December 2024

Liam Kerr

I want to ask about the victim contact team, which was announced in early October. You said that amendments on that will be lodged at stage 2. One issue with bills that go through this Parliament, which is often slightly less than desirable, and is something that has been raised by this committee and others, is the costs that get loaded on to agencies and how they are calculated. Before the committee considers the amendments on the victim contact team, can you tell us how much the team will cost to set up, and what its on-going cost will be?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 11 December 2024

Liam Kerr

I have a brief follow-up, minister. Concerns have been raised that dealing with reform in this way—in other words, through amendments that put in something completely new at stage 2—is less than satisfactory. Arguably, it precludes proper consultation and scrutiny, not least because, as we have heard today, you have no idea of the costs and format of the victim contact team, and you have also talked about not being sure about getting the data sharing through. Do you have a view on whether this is an appropriate way of making legislation?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 11 December 2024

Liam Kerr

Indeed.

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Liam Kerr

Good morning. I remind the committee, witnesses and anyone who is watching of my interests, in that I am a practising solicitor and I am regulated by the Law Society of Scotland.

At stage 1, the cabinet secretary told the committee—these are my words—that the system needs to be considered holistically, such that, if you remove the not proven verdict, you need to do something with the jury size, for example. That view was reflected in Stuart Munro’s opening remarks.

Now, of course, the cabinet secretary is winding back on jury size but increasing the majority that is needed for a conviction. Michael Meehan, in the faculty’s view, does adding two to the majority provide sufficient safeguards in light of the removal of the verdict? Is there any evidence to suggest that a two-thirds majority is appropriate in a two-verdict system?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Liam Kerr

I am very grateful.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Liam Kerr

For the avoidance of doubt, is there any way that 10 out of 15 could be considered a supermajority?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Liam Kerr

Yes. With regard to section 63, on anonymity for victims, the committee raised a couple of issues around the public domain defence and the application of a definition of “victim”. The cabinet secretary’s letter suggests various amendments to address those points. Will they be sufficient, or could they have gone further?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Liam Kerr

To be clear, though, you would prefer it if the cabinet secretary’s amendments were to go further, particularly with regard to anonymity after death. Is that right?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Liam Kerr

I will be brief. I have a question on section 40—I will put it to Michael Meehan, but the other two gentlemen can come in if they wish.

Section 40 concerns the appointment and tenure of judges, and section 40(7) to 40(9) concerns the removal of judges. That can currently be done without reasons being given. The committee raised concerns about the proposed changes in that regard at stage 1. In your view, is there a concern that the threat of removal without reasons could risk impacting the independence of decision making?

In any event, given that the cabinet secretary has signalled a willingness to lodge amendments to the removal process, what would those amendments need to look like, in your view, to ameliorate any risk?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Liam Kerr

I understand—thank you.