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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 11 December 2025
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Displaying 1285 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Rona Mackay

Good morning. I have listened carefully to the points that have been raised. Given the actions of the UK Government, would not passing the order have much more serious consequences than doing so? We have been pushed into a corner; we have to introduce this, and it is necessary. Does the minister agree?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Rona Mackay

I want to ask about floating trial diets. I think that it is generally accepted that they are not a good thing. They bring uncertainty and cause great distress to complainers, and the Lord Advocate has said that she would like them to disappear. Will the sexual offences court alleviate that problem? Is it at all possible to legislate to end them, or is that best left to the independent judiciary?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Rona Mackay

I completely appreciate that. What I am trying to do is to break the impasse in the problem with convictions in sexual crime cases compared with the rest of cases. Rape Crisis is concerned that the bill will make it harder to convict because of the jury configuration, which will not help victims.

10:30  

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Rona Mackay

I totally understand.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Rona Mackay

Conviction rates for rape are the lowest of any crime type; indeed, I think that the Lord Advocate said that the conviction rate for single-complainer rape cases is 20 per cent, which is quite shocking. Cabinet secretary, you will know that Rape Crisis is very concerned about the two-thirds majority in a 12-person jury and feels that it would make it harder to get convictions, which is clearly the last thing that we want.

Before we go on to talk about the new sexual offences court, I have what is quite a left-field question, but I am going to ask it anyway. We are talking about jury balance and sizes. Do you envisage the Government ever making provision for a different configuration of or different criteria for juries in that court, to try to balance out Rape Crisis’s fears in relation to corroboration and all the rest of it? Given that we are setting up a new court anyway, is that something that the Government would ever consider?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Rona Mackay

Do you recognise that a judge would be specifically trained and trauma informed, and that therefore bias and the belief in rape myths would not be as great?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Rona Mackay

As I understand the matter, that is the conviction rate.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Rona Mackay

Will your members come up with any constructive alternative proposal?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Rona Mackay

But you have said that you are not going to do that in this case.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Rona Mackay

I will go back to conviction rates. Your submission says:

“if the Scottish Government wishes to increase the convictions . . . we simply ask, what is the correct conviction rate?”

You quote someone called Tommy Ross KC, who said that

“the correct conviction rate is the number of cases that are proved beyond a reasonable doubt. I believe we are achieving that at present.”

Do you think that a 20 per cent conviction rate for single rape complainers is acceptable?