Seòmar agus comataidhean

Laura Buchan, your submission said a similar thing, but it sounds like you are well down the road to trauma-informed practice. Therefore, why would that need lots more investment?

I get that.

It is all interlinked.

Good morning, panel. Dr Bruce, I want to go back to something that you said about the whole system and all the agencies working together generically but also working individually. Can that work? How far away are we from that happening? Is that a long-term aspiration?

What do you mean by “minimising barriers” to effective participation?

It is going to grow.

Thank you. That is useful to know.

This question is for Laura Buchan. My colleague Fulton MacGregor and I were members of the Justice Committee in the previous session. One of the first things that we did in 2016 was an inquiry into the Crown Office. To go back to the line of questioning from my colleague Pauline McNeill, the lack of communication to victims and witnesses was the key point that came out of that inquiry. That was a long time ago, and it seems to me that that communication has not improved that much. From what you are saying, you are now addressing that issue and taking it very seriously. Will improvement happen sooner than within eight years? People being left in the dark was a key point that came out of the inquiry, and that caused great trauma.

I go back to points that were made earlier about culture change coming from leadership. I do not understand why that would be expensive.

I will be brief. We are having an interesting discussion and it has been an interesting session. We are learning that if we keep doing the same thing budget-wise, things will not get better. In fact, they will get worse. It goes back to the points that John Swinney and Bill Fitzpatrick made about the sector getting together to discuss how we can do things differently. You know that if we cut the Scottish Prison Service budget in the next budget, there would be an outcry, because the preparatory work for that has not been done.

Is it possible for you and the Government to effect change in the way that is needed? As Bill Fitzpatrick said, quite rightly, it has not happened, and people are protecting their own areas. That needs to change. Being a bit simplistic about it, if we put fewer people in prison, which we aim to do, prison should not need such a huge budget and that money could be put into community justice. I am certainly no economist but until we start having the conversation about change, nothing will happen. Am I right?

You have said that things have been changing over the years, but I am talking about recent accounts of complainers’ experiences in the courts. Either what you have said is not happening or there is no judicial intervention, but something has to change.