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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 17 September 2025
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Displaying 1182 contributions

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Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Committee Effectiveness Inquiry

Meeting date: 3 April 2025

Rona Mackay

Does the issue go back to our programme for government? In our programme for government, there is a commitment to get legislation through. Is that where the change should start?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Committee Effectiveness Inquiry

Meeting date: 3 April 2025

Rona Mackay

You talk about sub-groups. In the previous session, I was on the Justice Committee and we had a Justice Sub-Committee on Policing, which I was also on. It is not possible to have that in this session, because we do not have enough people to populate a sub-committee, so we are dealing with everything in the one committee. It comes down to the legislative workload and the number of people who are available to be on the committees. All that being said, I think that we do a really good job at it.

I agree that we have fantastic support from the clerking teams and from SPICe. When I was first elected, in 2016, I had never sat on a committee before; I was something else in a previous life. One thing that amazed me right from the start was how good the support was that members got. We could go to any of the clerks at any time and ask them anything, and they would get right back to us. Honestly, I think that we have a great system for that here. It is really good across all the portfolios.

My last question is about the balance between referred work and proactive inquiry work. We would all love to do more proactive inquiry work and we should be doing it; it is just that we do not always have the time to do it. Some committees do some of that work and it is really useful, but there is more that could be done. However, the logistics often do not allow for that. Would the best plan be to build that into our work programme regardless? Do you have any thoughts on that, Professor Cairney?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Committee Effectiveness Inquiry

Meeting date: 3 April 2025

Rona Mackay

I think that you have completely nailed it there. The idea of members having more of an up-front look at legislation and doing a bit more scrutiny beforehand might alleviate the situation, because we would not be coming to it new.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Rona Mackay

I will repeat what I said last week. I understand your argument, but I do not think that anything different will happen unless the new court is set up, because it has not happened so far. Previously, the need to set up a specialist court for sexual offences was not recognised, but now we have an opportunity to do it. It would be a wasted opportunity if we do not do it—I do not think that there will be a change in how courts operate unless the new one is set up. However, as you said, perhaps that is a difference of opinion.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Rona Mackay

Would the member acknowledge that Rape Crisis Scotland and women’s organisations were in favour of such trials and would he also acknowledge that this is an example of the Scottish Government listening to voices from across the board and, far from being a humiliating U-turn, shows the Government working with members?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Rona Mackay

I understand what you are saying, and I totally agree with that. I am now a bit confused about whether you approve of the setting up of a sexual offences court and whether you recognise that it is to be set up because of the very specialist nature of the crime and the huge increase in such crime.

I understand your argument about the same judges being in different courts but, even for representation reasons, do you not agree that setting up a specialist court is our way of saying that something must be done about this? I am now unclear about whether you want the court.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Rona Mackay

There is no evidence for your position, either.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Rona Mackay

I go back to an earlier intervention that my colleague Katy Clark made on Sharon Dowey, who talked about a lack of evidence. Would you not concede that your position on a supermajority would be a radical change without evidence? You are saying that we cannot make a change because we do not have evidence, but you are proposing a radical change with a supermajority.

You referred to the bill at stage 1 proposing a jury of 12. We now need to accept that we are talking about a jury of 15, with a majority of 10. Getting rid of the not proven verdict is universally popular. Given that, do you not agree that the Government is striking the right balance by keeping the jury size at 15 but requiring a majority of 10? I think that your solution presents a much greater risk of making it much harder to get convictions. It is far more radical than what has been suggested.

10:30  

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Rona Mackay

I have already said, in my intervention on Liam Kerr, some of what I was going to say, but I have a question for Sharon Dowey. On amendment 92, you talked about how unsatisfactory the mock jury research was. Do you know how many people were involved in that? I know that it was quite extensive. I acknowledge what you said about it being a mock jury trial, but there was a lot of research and evidence.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Rona Mackay

Just for context, those trials involved 900 people and 64 juries. That is pretty extensive—