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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 18 December 2025
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Displaying 1088 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

Kate Forbes

—in terms of young people leaving Gaelic-medium education. I am a product of Gaelic-medium education, and I did quite well in my advanced higher Gaelic exam, but I would not count myself as being native fluent in that regard.

For me, an aim and an objective should be to try to ensure that children are excelling. However, that speaks to the bigger challenge, which is that genuine fluency has to happen outside the classroom. It is all about the opportunities that a person has through youth work, fun, family and then on to employment.

As English speakers, we all know that fluency in academic terms alone is not always sufficient to ensure that a young person continues with that fluency throughout the rest of their life, to perhaps pass it on to the next generation. I absolutely agree with CnaG and its aim of 90 per cent functional fluency—although I would like it to be 100 per cent.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

Kate Forbes

It gives a legal recognition. Scots has not had the legal recognition that the bill establishes, and it has not benefited from formal support through legislation. There is a big difference between formal support and formalising that expectation everywhere.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

Kate Forbes

I will answer that question. I keep coming back to the point about choice. I think that it is a teacher’s choice what they wish to do. In terms of—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

Kate Forbes

It is. At the moment, what does the bill do? First, the bill formalises recognition for Scots—it recognises it. Secondly, it standardises our response in terms of schools and creates opportunities that did not exist.

I recall being exposed to Scots in Dingwall academy through literature. I do not think that my teacher was necessarily trained in Scots. It would have been quite interesting if she had been trained in Scots; however, she would still probably have been my English teacher.

I think that there is an element of choice here in what a teacher does. That is very different from the case of Gaelic-medium education. If you apply for a job in Gaelic-medium education, there ain’t no choice in whether you are teaching in English or Gaelic—it is a Gaelic-medium school. When it comes to Scots, it is about working with the schools to identify what demand there is from the young people for teachers who are trained in Scots, and whether a school needs to recruit additional resource for that training. There is a big risk—which you picked up on, Mr Kerr, when you spoke about the standardising away of dialects—of overly formalising what we expect from schools, when they have to tailor their curriculum in that way to local interest and opportunity.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

Kate Forbes

I will bring in Claire Cullen, as she is closer to the development of the bill and how we got to where we are at with it.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

Kate Forbes

Yes, and I take it on board now, as you ask that question. Again, we will engage with those who have made that point. It is a Scottish languages bill, and recognising the diversity and variation within those languages is important.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

Kate Forbes

I apologise, but that is what I meant to say: when I said that parents had a right to access Gaelic-medium education, I missed out “to ask”—they have a right to ask for that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

Kate Forbes

—so I have not been able to do everything that I might have wanted to do as yet, but I will certainly bear that in mind. Is that something that you or the committee has considered? Is there something of interest in that model?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

Kate Forbes

That is a really important question. There is certainly no intention to do that, and if there was any risk at all of doing that, I would be very concerned, so let me commit to take that away, review the evidence that has been given and consider how we avoid any such risk of standardising out dialects, because those are extremely rich dialects, with a wealth of literature, heritage and culture. I would be concerned if there was any serious risk in that regard.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

Kate Forbes

I will take those questions in turn, and I will ask Claire Cullen or Douglas Ansdell to come in on the standards. It is a slightly different approach to the one that was taken for Gaelic. When was the first Gaelic-medium school opened—was it 1984?