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I do not want to exclude it from the national conversation but it will probably not part of it, because I want to follow the matter up with justice officials. We will do that after the committee meeting, and I would be happy to share information with Ms Lennon on it. We might have a specific legislative fix that might not be part of our wider national conversation. Although I do not want to exclude it at this point, they are probably two separate things.

As Ms Lennon will know, it is not off the table, because we are still in negotiations. I have discussed a number of things with the unions, not least their views on ticket office closures. We are having conversations at the moment, and those engagements are on-going directly between officials, ScotRail and the unions, but, as I have said, the issue is not off the table. I have heard Mick Hogg’s comments on the matter, and I think that the committee would be surprised if we took ScotRail into public ownership and did not have a no compulsory redundancy policy. However, we are not there yet, because we have not established a pay deal. I would be very keen to get to that place with the unions, but, as those negotiations are on-going, I do not want to prejudge anything.

I am not personally in favour, but the matter is still on the table, because the negotiations are on-going.

As I mentioned in my answer to Natalie Don, I have received a submission that sets out a number of options. I will be arriving at a decision on the matter imminently, and I will be happy to share that with the committee.

The current associated timescales might take us to 2023, but I am keen to see results sooner than that. I will speak to officials about how we can do that and how we best join up the different modes of public transport so that we do not look just narrowly at rail travel. It is important that we do the preparatory work in that respect.

We should also be cognisant of the fact that travel patronage patterns are not what they were two years ago and not what I hope they will be in two years’ time. As far as looking at the data is concerned, it is difficult to prejudge how the public might feel in, say, three months’ time. As I mentioned earlier, another wave of coronavirus, such as omicron or some equivalent, might put people off returning to public transport. We need to be cognisant of that, too.

I do not have timescales to share with Ms Lennon just now. However, as I have said, I have the submission that has been made, and once I have made a decision on what the fair fares review will look like, I will be more than happy to share that with the committee. Given that we are in the planning and preparatory stages, I do not have that detail to hand just now.

I am happy for you to do so. I was of the view that it has been.

The answer is accountability to ministers. The holder of the ScotRail franchise is now accountable directly to ministers, and ministers are accountable to the Parliament and to this committee.

Mr Kerr, you talked about passenger need. I think that in the debates and conversations that we have in the chamber and in this committee, there is a place for us to discuss how we meet passenger need. It is a hugely important issue.

You also touched upon a number of different challenges that we have talked about during this morning’s meeting. I am alive to all of them, but we have to be pragmatic and realistic here. The fact is that people walked away from—or were not able to use—our railways during the pandemic, because they were being told to stay at home by the good public health advice that was given. At the same time, however, we were providing emergency funding to allow the railways to continue. As a result, we need to look at the sustainability of the revenue structures that we have in place for our railways.

There are no proposals for fare increases. I think that what you are talking about is a historical point that was raised at the committee’s previous evidence-taking session when it was mentioned that fares had increased by 3.8 per cent. There are no proposals for future fare increases that I am aware of. As for ticket office closures, I have given an undertaking to the unions that I will work with them on that issue, because I recognise the strength of feeling in that respect.

I think that all of this comes back to what will be different with this new approach. It is about accountability and ensuring not only that ministers are held to account but that we deliver a railway service that best meets communities’ needs. As a Fife MSP, I know about some of the challenges that we faced with the Abellio contract in the years leading up to where we are now. Indeed, those challenges were very real. There were not enough seats on trains; trains were being cancelled; and there were delays. I am very much alive to all of that. Do I think that all of that will go away with public ownership? I hope that some of it will, but at least there will now be accountability to Parliament and ministerial oversight of the process. Those things are hugely important.

Secondly, some of the people will be the same, but they are experts in their field, and they are the people whom we would want to be in charge of running ScotRail Trains Ltd. The new framework agreements, which of course will be shared with the committee as and when they are published, will allow for ministerial oversight. I think that that is the main difference here. As ministers are accountable to Parliament, and as ScotRail Trains Ltd is accountable to ministers, there will be greater democracy in how we hope to run Scotland’s trains. We have not had that under the franchising network system with Abellio and, as I have said, I recognise some of the challenges that have existed in relation to that in the past.

Bill Reeve might want to say more about the opportunities that this approach presents but, to my mind, it is all about accountability.

We have seen a complete shift in patronage, with people using railways at the weekend and not as much during the week, when they work from home. We have to be cognisant of that when we consider the delivery of the timetable and what that means for the travelling public. Would I like to see more trains in the future? Absolutely, but to justify that action, we need to get patronage up to its level prior to the pandemic.

I hope that we will get to that position, but it all depends on patronage, which in turn depends on people’s behaviour and whether they choose to work from home. Hybrid working is here to stay. Indeed, we have an example of that in today’s committee meeting—the Parliament has been a great example of hybrid working throughout the pandemic. However, we cannot account for what that might mean in the future. Prior to the pandemic, none of us as politicians could have imagined working remotely, and yet we have all learned to cope with it over the past two years.

I would like our railway provision to get back on to a more sustainable footing, but that will require passenger demand to increase. We need to reflect that better in timetabling in the future.

I am not going to give Mr Kerr an undertaking on a feasibility study right now. However, STPR2 is currently out for public consultation. That consultation will stay open until next month, and I encourage Mr Kerr and other members to respond to it.

In addition, STPR2 does not preclude campaigns such as the one in his region. For example, the Levenmouth rail link had two Scottish transport appraisal guidance options appraisals and then another options appraisal before it was approved. In other words, there were two different processes and then a final options appraisal that was considered before we gave approval to that line.

I am not ruling out any lines in the future; indeed, as a high-level document, STPR2 itself does not preclude the implementation of local lines in the future. I know that Mr Kerr has written to me on this subject, as has the campaign group, and I would be more than happy to meet the campaigners and Mr Kerr to discuss the matter in detail. One of the first things that I did when I was elected was to meet Mr Yousaf and campaign on behalf of my constituents for the Levenmouth rail link—and look where we are now.

Thank you, convener.

Almost exactly a year ago, on 17 March 2021, the Cabinet Secretary for Transport, Infrastructure and Connectivity, Michael Matheson, advised Parliament that, at the conclusion of the current franchise, ScotRail services would be provided in the public sector by the operator of last resort—an arm’s length company owned and controlled by the Scottish Government. The franchising system was clearly no longer fit for purpose.

At that time, there was considerable uncertainty arising from the on-going Covid-19 pandemic and continuing delays to the publication of the United Kingdom Government’s white paper on rail reform. A detailed assessment of the options available for ScotRail was undertaken and it was decided that it would not be appropriate to award another franchise agreement to any party at that time. In the circumstances, our duty to provide or secure ScotRail services through the OLR under section 30 of the Railways Act 1993 will be engaged when the current franchise agreement ends on 31 March 2022. As committee members will know, bringing train operators into the public sector under Government control through section 30 OLR arrangements is not a new thing. Indeed, three train-operating companies in England and one in Wales are now in the public sector under Government control.

A considerable amount of work has taken place since that announcement. As members will be aware, I recently provided an update to Parliament, confirming that the transition of ScotRail into Scottish Government control will take place on 1 April, which is just 17 days away.

How have we prepared for the transition? Following detailed analysis and consideration, we have adopted a holding company model for the Scottish Government-owned, public sector-operated operator of last resort arrangements. Under that model, a Government-owned holding company, Scottish Rail Holdings Ltd, will, on behalf of Scottish ministers, oversee and manage the delivery of services by its wholly owned subsidiary ScotRail Trains Ltd. Our view is that that is the most robust and sustainable model that is compatible with current UK rail legislation, which we have no powers to change. It strikes a balance between experienced rail professionals being able to make operational decisions and giving overall accountability to Scottish ministers.

Late last year, we announced key fixed term appointments for Scottish Rail Holdings Ltd, with Chris Gibb appointed as chief executive officer and David Lowrie as finance director. In addition, arrangements for the formal transfer of ScotRail staff from Abellio ScotRail Ltd to ScotRail Trains Ltd continues at pace, with engagement with staff and trade unions having begun in early January. I personally have met with the trade unions both collectively and individually in recent weeks, and I will work collaboratively with them to ensure the long-term sustainability of rail operations in Scotland. Staff will transfer on their terms and conditions on 1 April. They will also benefit from the public sector pay policy, and we have committed to ensuring that any pay deals that where already agreed for 2022-23 will be honoured.

Over the coming days, the transition team will remain focused on finalising governance and other arrangements for the transition to OLR to ensure that the transition is as smooth as possible for passengers and staff. On governance, we are finalising the designation of the chief executive of SRH as accountable officer. There will be an interim arrangement in which the Transport Scotland accountable officer will remain as AO for SRH until an order under section 483 of the Companies Act 2006 is approved by Parliament.

The first of April not only marks a new beginning for ScotRail, but gives us an opportunity to deliver passenger services that are efficient, sustainable, safe and fit for the future and which reflect the changing world in which we live. It is also a chance to give people across the country the opportunity to help us shape our vision for the new ScotRail. It is clear that we have to adapt in order to align with changing travel patterns and that we have to consider the affordability of the railway as we recover from the pandemic. An important aspect is the need to make sure that passengers and staff are safe—and feel safe—in our stations and on our trains.

All of that needs to take place while we work towards the delivery of our ambitious target to decarbonise rail passenger services by 2035. Against that backdrop, I want to ensure that people the length and breadth of Scotland are given a chance to have their say on what the new future of ScotRail should look like.

As I outlined in my statement to Parliament, there is no doubt that the future of rail services is changing. We have two particular challenges to address. One is the future of ScotRail post 1 April, and another is the matter of women's safety on public transport. In that respect, I note Transport Focus’s oral evidence to the committee last week. Its research found that 85 per cent of women and girls think about their safety while planning or making a journey on public transport, while British Transport Police figures for sexual harassment on public transport in London show a 61 per cent increase since before the pandemic began.

As members will know, I as the minister am making two distinct offers as we take ScotRail into public ownership. The first is a national conversation on what our railway should look like from 1 April, and how it best meets passenger need, and the second is a broader look at women's safety on rail and across our public transport network. We will be launching a consultation on women's safety, spanning all modes of public transport. Plans are being developed; officials have started engagement with Engender; and we will look to begin focused engagement with other women's organisations specifically on improving women's experience of and safety across public transport.

Officials have also started meeting key groups such as the safer transport strategic group, which is led by British Transport Police and brings together a range of public transport providers to promote safer travel across public transport. I will be meeting BTP shortly to discuss that, in recognition of its campaign on sexual harassment, which started earlier this year.

Committee members will also recall my announcement that we would be taking forward a national conversation on rail. That will be an opportunity for staff, passengers, communities, trade unions and MSPs who share our ambition to make Scotland’s railway attractive and accessible for all to help shape that vision for ScotRail. Officials are developing the scope and remit for the national conversation and more information on that will be announced in the coming weeks. Substantial public engagement will begin later this spring, following the local government elections, but I am particularly keen to engage our trade unions in this work, as I recognise their vital role in ensuring that public ownership of our railways works. I also invite committee members to play their part in shaping that national conversation.

The officials and I are happy to take any questions that the committee might have. It is also worth saying that I am keen to hear any suggestions that members might have, too.