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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 April 2025
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Displaying 847 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I do not know whether Mr Dey agrees, but I think that we are ahead of the game on public sector reform. We are already leading programmes of reform across my areas of responsibility, and Mr Dey is introducing legislation later this year. We are already moving forward with reform, which will include looking at our agencies and senior phase qualifications, and, in his bill, Mr Dey will be looking at funding. We are already taking forward a range of measures on public sector reform, and I have engaged with Mr McKee on how to drive better value for money while improving outcomes for our children and young people, which is what reform in the education space has to be about.

One of the changes that I implemented last year was to join up our reform agenda in school education with Mr Dey’s post-school education work. The group that I chair is now looking at both areas, and working across both of our areas of responsibility, Mr Dey and I are pulling together partners in order to take a more holistic approach to reform and to make sure that it is fit for purpose.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I would reflect on some of the points that the minister has made previously. When the funding was first introduced, it was a temporary funding agreement that was to last three years. When the minister and I came into post, we agreed to an extension for a further year to support our colleges, recognising the particular points that the member has made.

More broadly, not just in our colleges but across our education system post-pandemic, mental health will continue to be a challenge for our schools, for staff and for college and university students. We will continue to work with our colleges.

The minister spoke about some of the further work that is being done on the mental health action plan; he may wish to say more on that. Having had sight of his work on getting things into a better place, I know that that has been really important for delivery on the ground and for having a joined-up approach with NHS services. It is not just about education services, and we must have partnership working.

Mr Dey may wish to say more regarding the further education sector.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Jenny Gilruth

The cabinet secretary made mention of a number of portfolio areas in response to asks that have come from cabinet secretaries. I made specific asks around additional support needs.

As the committee knows, in recent times, there has been an increase in the number of pupils with additional support needs. The statistics that we published just before Christmas show that, at a national level, that figure now sits at more than 40 per cent. I am aware that, in some schools in Scotland, the figure sits at more than 50 per cent—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Jenny Gilruth

We have provided an uplift in the budget to meet the needs of real living wage costs for private, voluntary and independent staff, and I think that that has been welcomed.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Jenny Gilruth

Indeed, but that relies on Governments working together, and we need to be mindful of the fiscal context.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Jenny Gilruth

As the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills, I can say that—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Jenny Gilruth

You are right to say that there is no capital allocation for free school meals in next year’s budget—that is because the capital allocation for free school meals roll-out for those in P6 and P7 who are in receipt of the Scottish child payment has been baked into the current year’s financial settlement, so there is no need for that capital in the next financial year. The funding that we have provided in next year’s budget, which we are speaking about today, is for resource, and it is an uplift of £50 million. That is the reason why it does not appear in the budget itself.

The committee will be well aware of the Government’s commitment to universality and to working towards that, and of the financial challenges that we have faced in that regard. We task the Scottish Futures Trust with providing the Government with independent forecasts for what universality might cost. I think that the costings, when I last considered them, were just over £250 million, which I did not have in my budget. We have therefore taken an approach to target free school meals provision at those who are most in need.

It is worth noting that Scotland is the only part of the UK that continues to make some provision for free school meals across the school holidays, which is important. That funding goes directly to local authorities.

The challenges to achieving free school meals universality have largely been financial. I think that the committee knows that—we have certainly discussed it in the chamber at length. It remains our aspiration, subject to financial agreement from elsewhere, that we will continue with our progress on universality.

I should put on record that some parts of the country, such as Inverclyde Council, currently provide universal free school meals. The Government also provides free school meals to those who qualify for them right up to the end of secondary 6. That capital provision is not made in the next financial year because it is not required.

Universality remains our aspiration, and we know that that investment, although it is not currently where we would like it to be, is making a real difference. It is helping to save families, on average, £400 per child per year, so it is a worthwhile investment, and we will continue to work with local authorities on universal roll-out.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Jenny Gilruth

Mr Greer and I have had an exchange on that issue in the chamber, and I think that I have agreed to visit the said primary school with him.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I do not think that that is the case.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Jenny Gilruth

Of course it is, but we are—