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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 19 April 2025
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Displaying 847 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Jenny Gilruth

Yes, of course—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Jenny Gilruth

No, but it goes some way towards making progress. I recall that we discussed this issue this time last year, Mr Rennie, and I am sure that you will welcome the additional funding in the budget again this year to provide that uplift. The situation will continue to be a challenge, but we will work with the PVI sector on it.

More broadly, I am cognisant that we cannot deliver on aspirations for ELC without the PVI sector. We need to have a strong PVI sector to supplement additional delivery of ELC by local authorities across the country.

The additionality for pay has been welcomed. I recognise the challenge that the member has raised on a number of occasions with my colleague Ms Don-Innes in the chamber. I am happy to engage with him on that further if he has further views, but there is additionality in the budget to meet that budget ask.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Jenny Gilruth

In what respect? Would you like to set a timescale on it?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Jenny Gilruth

No. What I have said, though, is that we are looking to further develop some of our expansion, which is why the additionality in the budget for the bright start breakfasts campaign is hugely welcome. I hope that that will be welcomed by all parties, because—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I think that we have listened to the sector more broadly. I very much recognise the challenges within the college sector. We spoke to the committee about them last year and Mr Dey has been driving forward that work as part of his engagement with the sector and his work to provide flexibilities.

You spoke about some of the challenges relating to capital, but those have been offset by the ending of work on Dunfermline learning campus, which accounts for that reduction. If you subtract the budget for that from the figures, there has been a slight increase in the capital allocation.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Jenny Gilruth

Yes—absolutely. Members will know—I think that they may be aware—that I was a teacher before I did this job and, having taught hungry children, I know that it makes a real difference if children have had something to eat before they come into school.

On that point, I should say that the budget makes additional provision for pre-school breakfast clubs, through the bright start breakfasts programme, which is important and will make a huge contribution. It is also worth pointing out that approximately 50 per cent of schools in Scotland already have some sort of breakfast provision. Some headteachers use their pupil equity fund, through the attainment challenge funding that Ms Dunbar asked me about, to fund breakfast provision in their schools. There is a mixed model across the country.

The bright start breakfasts pilot programme that we have introduced will help to give us some additional information on how we could roll out that provision further, because we know that investment in school nutrition, whether it is in free breakfasts or free school meals, makes a real impact in improving attainment.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Jenny Gilruth

Every cabinet secretary negotiates with the finance secretary of the day to deliver additionality for their portfolio—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Jenny Gilruth

The member makes a good point. Obviously, this is not just an issue for education. The national insurance contributions issue affects a number of portfolio areas, and the member is right that Ms Robison is leading on that as finance secretary, although there are specific implications for education. As I alluded to in my response to Ms Dunbar at the start of the evidence session, we do not yet have the granular detail on how the changes will interact with public services. We therefore need to understand how the UK Government will implement those changes, and we need to forecast how much that will cost the areas for which I am responsible.

That job will be undertaken across Government, and the engagement is being led by Ms Robison. Should I receive a response—of course, I fully expect to do so—I am more than happy to share a copy of that with the committee for its interest.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Jenny Gilruth

You would come to me on that, Mr Rennie, but I should start by saying that my wife sits on The Promise Scotland board, so I am recused from any decision making on the Promise. I will bring in Andrew Watson at this point to talk to the detail, but I just wanted to note my recusal, convener.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Jenny Gilruth

We work very closely with universities on funding. We met Universities Scotland ahead of the budget and listened to its asks, and I think that those asks have been met with the budget allocation that is being provided—although the minister may have his own views on that. There is a 3.5 per cent increase in the allocation. We will continue to work with universities. It is also worth pointing out that universities are not solely dependent on the Government for their financing. They are independent institutions, and many work independently to bring in a variety of different funding streams to work collaboratively and in ways that, arguably, the Government cannot, to bring in additional finance. It is not a one-way street. I am open to engagement with universities about funding, and Mr Dey engages regularly with the sector.

I conclude with a reflection on the current challenge with national insurance contributions, which I do not have an answer for, and neither does the budget. That is a challenge, because unless I have clarity from the UK Government, I cannot respond to the sector’s needs. That is creating real uncertainty. Mr Dey also alluded to some of the challenges with international students, and I should add the consequences of Brexit for the sector. Mr Briggs will observe that some of the challenges are not necessarily of the Government’s making.