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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 7 April 2025
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Displaying 847 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

That will be a matter for the next Government.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I do not have anything further to add to Nico McKenzie-Juetten’s comments on that aspect.

I heard what Miles Briggs asked about stage 3—Pam Duncan-Glancy made that point earlier. I go back to Clare Hicks’s point that we would not seek to begin the recruitment round until we had certainty on any such amendments, because we would not be able to make appointments to a board without listening to the Parliament in relation to the amendments that the Government will accept. We have to reflect that in the recruitment process, but my concern as cabinet secretary is that if we sit still—this is predicated on the advice that my officials have given me—we risk not having board appointments in place for the new operational qualifications Scotland. I do not think that that will be credible to Scotland’s teachers or to pupils and their parents. It is therefore imperative that we have the board appointments in place.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I do not accept the assertion that Mr Briggs made in his final point. Of course, purely on the basis of the numbers, in a Parliament of minorities, the Government must listen to the views of Opposition parties. However, I want to have cross-party support for the bill, because that will strengthen the way in which our qualifications offer works. I have met Mr Briggs privately and I have met other members of the committee to talk about their interests in relation to amendments. I am very keen to deliver on that.

Again, I go back to the inherent risk of our not agreeing the order today, which would in essence mean a delay to the board appointment process. That concerns me, because the legislation is key to delivering all that the Parliament has asked the Government to deliver on on education reform. We can sit still if that is the committee’s view as to what we should do, but it will delay the process and there is inherent risk in that approach. It is, of course, a matter for the committee to decide on.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

Yes. We have been working to support them. The decisions around those changes pre-date my time in office, so I might lean into officials, in a moment.

However, if we go back to the committee’s recommendations in 2022, there was an acceptance at that time that poverty exists in all local authorities, and an acceptance that the move to that model—which was welcomed by many—seemed to be fairer.

We have worked with those local authorities, particularly in relation to the tapering of the funding. I will bring in officials to talk about what that support has looked like and how we have given that additionality.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I will talk about some of the progress in due course, convener, but the context is important. One of the findings from the committee’s report back in 2022 was that the pandemic had led to on-going impacts on our schools. That is not limited to Scotland; we see it across the United Kingdom. The United Nations has also produced a body of work on young people’s attainment post-pandemic. Two years out of formal schooling has impacted on attainment—we see that in relation to exam results, for example. The context matters and we need to be mindful of it.

The cost of living crisis also matters. It has compounded poverty for many families who are on the fringes of our society. If we look back to 2015-16, when PEF was first announced, the interventions that were made at that time were more targeted towards the educational space, but I now see that fund being routinely used for welfare interventions, for example in the employment of income maximisation officers, and I am sure that you see that on your visits, convener. I referred to that in my opening comment quite deliberately. In a school in Dundee, I saw PEF money being used to help families to access cheaper gas and electricity. PEF is being used in a wider sense than was originally intended, and the context of poverty needs to be understood.

I am pleased that we have made progress across a number of different measures.

10:30  

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

She is relatively new to the organisation, convener.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

That is correct. She has been leading on a number of changes, which the committee has been broadly supportive of, in relation to getting the organisation ready for the change to qualifications Scotland. Although there will be some continuity in the move across to qualifications Scotland, there are still some relatively fresh appointments. I spoke to the members who joined the board just before Christmas—five appointments were made at that time.

Although there is continuity, the body needs to operate, and the order is needed to give it the powers to do so and to fulfil functions in relation to the 2026 exam diet.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I am not, but I will defer to Clare Hicks and Nico.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

Yes.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I think that we made progress in the 2016 to 2021 Parliament.