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It could change at stage 2; however, if we do not start the process now, we will have to lead an alternative appointments process, and I have been advised that that would be truncated, far less robust and more open to challenge.

Mr Adam makes a good point. The school that I alluded to in my opening remarks—Braes high school in Falkirk—was one of the first schools that I visited as cabinet secretary. I was really struck by what they are doing. They had a “Take what you want” trolley and provision for the school prom, which many schools have. Many headteachers in our schools are using PEF to provide food and clothing. I do not think that they should have to do that, but they are having to make those choices because needs are not being met by the welfare state elsewhere. The power of PEF and SAC in their totality has been eroded by the implications of other policies, which is harming the impact that those funds should be having. That said, PEF is making a real difference.

I spoke about a primary school in Kirkcaldy in my opening remarks, where the headteacher is doing a lot of good work with a group of pupils with additional support needs. The convener took part in a debate on that last night. She is using her PEF money to employ an extra teacher, who is working with small groups of young people with identified additional support needs to give them time out of class and the extra support that they need. Across the country, PEF is being used to employ about 3,000 extra people, of whom 1,000 are teachers. The fund is being used in a lot of creative ways. That was a welcome reflection in the committee’s report in 2022, but we need to be mindful of external factors, because they have undoubtedly diluted the power, strength and impact that the funding was intended to have when it was introduced.

I do not accept that at all, Ms Duncan-Glancy. In fact, the Government is moving forward with the appointments process in advance of the stage 2 amendments—that has been a point of discussion today, which I will reflect on—because we want the new body to have a functioning operational board in place as soon as the bill is passed. That is hugely important. We do not want the creation of qualifications Scotland to be delayed in any way, shape or form.

The reality is that, if we do not have the order passed today, it will not be possible to start making regulated board appointments to qualifications Scotland before its establishment. That issue is within the committee’s gift, but I need to make members aware of the effect of not passing the order today.

The stage 2 and stage 3 timescales will be well in advance of the recruitment process having been finalised. I am not clear why you think that the Government will not have to reflect that in the recruitment process—of course we will, because the committee and Parliament’s decisions on amendments will impact on how the board is constructed.

Absolutely. We will have to reflect on the amendments that are agreed by the Parliament at stage 2 and, potentially, stage 3, and reflect that in the board composition and the subsequent recruitment that takes place. You can take reassurance on that point.

That is a fair point, which I am happy to reflect on after the meeting. I suppose that it goes back to the central ethos of PEF, which is that it is for each headteacher to decide which interventions to introduce in their school and, to that end, it is not for us to provide direction. Some people have views about campus cops but, if they were to be funded from a justice budget line, would they be in every school? What would that look like?

In my introductory remarks, I tried to make the point that we need to think about school funding in its totality and in the round post-pandemic. PEF spend is 1.8 per cent of education spend, so it is a tiny amount. I accept that I am here to be accountable for PEF and for SAC, but a lot of other funding is going into education just now. I do not know whether we have the same level of transparency on how that funding reaches those who need it most. That goes back to Pam Duncan-Glancy’s point about Audit Scotland’s report on additional support for learning. I am intrigued about how it tracks the spend because, although we are protecting ASL spend nationally, it is not necessarily getting to those who need it most.

I want to reflect on Mr Greer’s point about how we can work on a cross-Cabinet and cross-portfolio basis. I know that PEF is being used to fund campus police officers and I do not want that to stop that, because the purpose of PEF is to free up headteachers to make decisions for their schools. PEF is also a protected budget line, which they guard very closely. The next step would be to review school funding in the round and consider what would go beyond SAC and PEF in the future. Decisions on that will be a matter for the next Government, but I think that all political parties should be looking at the issue. That is my homework for everyone.

I go back to Ms Duncan-Glancy’s point on schools in particular. If we can get the data arrangement with the DWP in place, that will help our intelligence with regard to how we target that support.

Yesterday’s announcement from the University of Dundee was deeply concerning. The committee may be aware that Mr Dey and I wrote to the university yesterday. I am more than happy to share a copy of our correspondence with the committee. We also wrote to Universities Scotland to seek support for the university in order to respond to some of the challenges that Mr Rennie has set out.

Mr Rennie will recognise the challenges that ministers face around the additional investment of £15 million that the Government committed in the budget, in that we need to be very careful about the Office for National Statistics classification and the role of direct Government intervention.

Yesterday, Mr Dey and I met the chief executive of the Scottish Funding Council, and urgent advice is coming to ministers on what we might be able to do next. I am not currently able to share that with the committee because I do not have it, but I expect to receive it before the end of the week. Once I have received that advice, I will be more than happy to write to the committee more fulsomely to set out the Government’s next steps. I am aware that there have also been requests for ministerial statements on the issue. It may be that we will be able to share more detail about any action that the Government might be able to take once we are in receipt of the advice.

It is a deeply concerning and worrying time for the University of Dundee’s staff, given the extent of the proposed job losses. We have been very clear in our correspondence with the university that every effort will be made to protect jobs, given the quantum of the proposal, which is not palatable.

No, I cannot do that by using PEF as a measurement. I will see whether we can ascertain that. Across the country, 3,000 staff are employed using PEF; approximately 1,000 of them are teachers.